[109717] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] What is a sentence?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (MorphemeAddict)
Sat Jun 10 15:38:30 2017
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In-Reply-To: <6EDBB00E-0A8D-4F27-8487-72FED3F320B7@alcaco.net>
From: MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 14:37:58 -0500
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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A terminological note: A compound sentence (in English) is one consisting
of two or more independent clauses joined by a conjunction. A complex
sentence has an independent clause and a dependent one. Compound-complex
sentences have both.
lay'tel SIvten
On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 12:12 PM, ghunchu'wI' 'utlh <qunchuy@alcaco.net>
wrote:
> On Jun 9, 2017, at 3:03 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
>
> For instance, Captain Klaa's utterance *reH DIvI' Duj vISuv vIneH* *I've
> always wanted to fight a Federation ship* becomes perfectly reasonable
> without any special grammatical exceptions if we simply look at it as *reH
> [DIvI' Duj vISuv vIneH],* where the brackets delineate a sentence, not
> just a "construction."
>
>
> It is already an exception, as {neH} does not use the object {'e'}. It has
> occasionally been suggested that the "previous sentence" is the actual
> object of {neH}. I think that is no more of a stretch than what you propose.
>
> I do see the distinction between generalizing and making exceptions. I'm
> just not sure it is worth generalizing "all SAO constructions are
> sentences" in order to handle the Klaa example, when a small codicil on
> {neH} works to explain both the placement of {reH} and the lack of {'e'}.
>
>
> I think it is uncontroversial to call complex sentences made with
> conjunctions "sentences". Do we have any examples of such sentences where
> an adverbial or subordinate clause applies to the entire thing, or do they
> attach to only one main verb? The comparison isn't perfectly applicable to
> a SAO, but it could be instructive.
>
> -- ghunchu'wI'
>
> _______________________________________________
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> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace">A terminological note: A compound sentence (in English) is o=
ne consisting of two or more independent clauses joined by a conjunction. A=
complex sentence has an independent clause and a dependent one. Compound-c=
omplex sentences have both.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace">lay'tel SIvten</div><div=
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace">=C2=A0=
</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sa=
t, Jun 10, 2017 at 12:12 PM, ghunchu'wI' 'utlh <span dir=3D"ltr=
"><<a href=3D"mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net" target=3D"_blank">qunchuy@alcac=
o.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"a=
uto"><span class=3D""><div>On Jun 9, 2017, at 3:03 PM, SuStel <<a href=
=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>=
> wrote:</div><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>For instance=
, Captain Klaa's
utterance <b>reH DIvI' Duj vISuv vIneH</b> <i>I've always wan=
ted
to fight a Federation ship</i> becomes perfectly reasonable
without any special grammatical exceptions if we simply look at it
as <b>reH [DIvI' Duj vISuv vIneH],</b> where the brackets
delineate a sentence, not just a "construction."</div></blo=
ckquote></span><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><div><s=
pan style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div>It is a=
lready an exception, as {neH} does not use the object {'e'}. It has=
occasionally been suggested that the "previous sentence" is the =
actual object of {neH}. I think that is no more of a stretch than what you =
propose.</span><div><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><b=
r></span></div><div><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">I =
do see the distinction between generalizing and making exceptions. I'm =
just not sure it is worth generalizing "all SAO constructions are sent=
ences" in order to handle the Klaa example, when a small codicil on {n=
eH} works to explain both the placement of {reH} and the lack of {'e=
9;}.</span></div><div><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">=
<br></span></div><div><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">=
<br></span></div><div><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">=
I think it is uncontroversial to call complex sentences made with conjuncti=
ons "sentences". Do we have any examples of such sentences where =
an adverbial or subordinate clause applies to the entire thing, or do they =
attach to only one main verb? The comparison isn't perfectly applicable=
to a SAO, but it could be instructive.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=
=3D"#888888"><br><br>-- ghunchu'wI'</font></span></span></div></div=
><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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n-hol-kli.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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