[109276] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] mu' chu' chabal tetlh!
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Wed Mar 22 10:16:02 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 14:15:31 +0000
In-Reply-To: <1490185148186.3710@kth.se>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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Here's the full stanza from the paq'batlh:
ghIq QavwI'chaj DuQchu'
qeylIS betleH
chaHDaq SIStaHvIS negh 'Iw
Then Kahless's bat'leth
Pierced the last of them,
Showered with the soldiers' blood.
{chaHDaq SIStaHvIS negh 'Iw} "while the soldiers' blood rained on them"
I'm not sure this supports your idea that *{SISwI'} may mean "rainwater". =
I think your first instinct was correct: if anything, *{SISwI'} "thing tha=
t rains/showers", e.g. a rain cloud (or maybe even a shower or sprinkler he=
ad).
I don't remember if anyone has mentioned this, but we also have {SIS yoD} "=
umbrella" from TalkNow ("rain shield"??). However, lojmIt tI'wI'nuv report=
ed a personal discussion with MO at qepHom 2011:
"Note: the existence of a noun *{SIS} 'rain' is probably limited to this
expression (i.e. it's a fossilised remnant rather than a productive noun=
)."
--Voragh
On Behalf Of Felix Malmenbeck
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:19 AM
According to an e-mail by Roger Cheesbro:
> All correct. SISlu', altho grammaticlly correct, he didn't particularly
> like. Someone COULD use it but to me it sounds like they skipped science
> class and don't know what the subject is. You can also give it an object
> and say things like the clouds rained down cats and dogs. ...or something
> like that; you get the idea. But when Marc and I went outside and drops
> of water were falling on us, he looked up and simply said "SIS".
This would indicate that a {SISwI'} would actually be a rain cloud, rather =
than the rain itself, which would be {bIQ SISlu'bogh}.
However, in paq'batlh (paq'raD, Canto 13, Stanza 6), we have the sentence {=
chaHDaq SIStaHvIS 'Iw}, indicating that rainwater may indeed be described a=
s {SISwI'}.
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Here’s the full stanza from the p=
aq'batlh:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">ghIq QavwI'chaj DuQchu'<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> qeylIS betleH<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> chaHDaq SIStaHvIS negh 'Iw<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><br>
Then Kahless's bat'leth<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> Pierced the last of them,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> Showered with the soldiers' bloo=
d.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">{chaHDaq SIStaHvIS negh 'Iw} “whi=
le the soldiers’ blood rained on them”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">I’m not sure this supports your i=
dea that *{SISwI’} may mean “rainwater”. I think yo=
ur first instinct was correct: if anything, *{SISwI’} “th=
ing that rains/showers”,
e.g. a rain cloud (or maybe even a shower or sprinkler head).<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">I don’t remember if anyone has me=
ntioned this, but we also have {SIS yoD} “umbrella” from TalkNo=
w ("rain shield"??). However, lojmIt tI'wI'nuv reported a p=
ersonal
discussion with MO at qepHom 2011:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> "Note: the existence of a no=
un *{SIS} ‘rain’ is probably limited to this<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> expression (i.e. it's a fo=
ssilised remnant rather than a productive noun)."
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">--Voragh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
;Calibri",sans-serif">On Behalf Of
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
sans-serif">Felix Malmenbeck<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:19 AM<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">A=
ccording to an e-mail by Roger Cheesbro:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:black">> All correct. SISlu', altho grammaticlly correct, he=
didn't particularly<br>
> like. Someone COULD use it but to me it sounds like they skipped scien=
ce<br>
> class and don't know what the subject is. You can also give it an obje=
ct<br>
> and say things like the clouds rained down cats and dogs. ...or someth=
ing<br>
> like that; you get the idea. But when Marc and I went outside and drop=
s<br>
> of water were falling on us, he looked up and simply said "SIS&qu=
ot;. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">T=
his would indicate that a {SISwI'} would actually be a rain cloud, rather t=
han the rain itself, which would be {bIQ SISlu'bogh}.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">H=
owever, in paq'batlh (paq'raD, Canto 13, Stanza 6), we have the sentence {c=
haHDaq SIStaHvIS 'Iw}, indicating that rainwater may indeed be described as=
{SISwI'}.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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