[109270] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] mu' chu' chabal tetlh!
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Tue Mar 21 20:08:07 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 20:07:32 -0400
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On 3/21/2017 5:37 PM, Jeremy Silver wrote:
>
> On Tuesday 21 Mar 2017 14:41:47 SuStel wrote:
>
> > On 3/21/2017 1:56 PM, Jeremy Silver wrote:
>
> > > I too have been having trouble finding a good way to express sand and
>
> > > ash and bribe for example. I think describing ground-up rock confuses
>
> > > people if trying to talk about sand.
>
> >
>
> > Hmm. *nagh pullu'pu'bogh* is actually a pretty decent substitute for
>
> > /sand./
>
> >
>
> True, but it's also an overly complicated term to use for poetic or
> lyrical use.
>
> *rIy'o'* 'oH be' pong'e'. 'ej naghDaq pullu'pu'bogh mI' ghaH.
>
Depends on how you use it. If you're trying to fill the same single
syllable as /sand,/ then yes, it's clumsy.
> > Don't think so, though something about that is nagging me. I'm also
>
> > thinking you might do something with *Don* and maybe *vel**,* but it's
>
> > clumsy.
>
> >
>
> As parallel things don't cross, would that be something based on
> {DonHa'} or the like?
>
Of course. *DonHa'* has *Don* in it. I wasn't spelling out how it might
be used.
> > > Do we have a usual way of expressing the concept of "beyond" like:
>
> > > On the other side of the mountain, there is a prison kind of thing?
>
> > >
>
> > > or Past the crossroads someone did something?
>
> >
>
> > *HuD latlh Dop retlhDaq bIghHa' tu'lu'*/in the area next to the
>
> > mountain's other side there is a prison./ But that doesn't cover phrases
>
> > like /far over the Misty Mountains cold,/ where the thing you're talking
>
> > about isn't immediately next to the other side of the mountain. You
>
> > might play with something like *pa' Hop* /faraway thereabouts. /This
>
> > starts to run into "sometimes inaccurate but never approximate"
> territory.
>
> Thanks for the response and identifying the reference. Why do I get
> the feeling I'm not the only one to try translating that poem?
>
I haven't tried that one, but I've done a lot of other Tolkien on this
list. I've gone more for the Anglo-Saxon-esque poetry and the dramatic
scenes.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/21/2017 5:37 PM, Jeremy Silver
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:12428852.VcaILzpAfB@localhost.localdomain"
type="cite">
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<style type="text/css">
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<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">On Tuesday 21 Mar 2017 14:41:47 SuStel wrote:</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> On 3/21/2017 1:56 PM, Jeremy Silver wrote:</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> > I too have been having trouble finding a good way to express sand and</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> > ash and bribe for example. I think describing ground-up rock confuses</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> > people if trying to talk about sand.</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> </p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> Hmm. *nagh pullu'pu'bogh* is actually a pretty decent substitute for</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> /sand./</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> </p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">True, but it's also an overly complicated term to use for poetic or lyrical use.</p>
<p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">*rIy'o'* 'oH be' pong'e'. 'ej naghDaq pullu'pu'bogh mI' ghaH.</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Depends on how you use it. If you're trying to fill the same single syllable as <i>sand,</i> then yes, it's clumsy.
</p>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:12428852.VcaILzpAfB@localhost.localdomain"
type="cite">> Don't think so, though something about that is
nagging me. I'm also
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> thinking you might do something with *Don* and maybe *vel**,* but it's</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> clumsy.</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> </p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">As parallel things don't cross, would that be something based on {DonHa'} or the like?</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Of course. <b>DonHa'</b> has <b>Don</b> in it. I wasn't spelling out how it might be used.
</p>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:12428852.VcaILzpAfB@localhost.localdomain"
type="cite">> > Do we have a usual way of expressing the
concept of "beyond" like:
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> > On the other side of the mountain, there is a prison kind of thing?</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> > </p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> > or Past the crossroads someone did something?</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> </p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> *HuD latlh Dop retlhDaq bIghHa' tu'lu'*/in the area next to the</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> mountain's other side there is a prison./ But that doesn't cover phrases</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> like /far over the Misty Mountains cold,/ where the thing you're talking</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> about isn't immediately next to the other side of the mountain. You</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> might play with something like *pa' Hop* /faraway thereabouts. /This</p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">> starts to run into "sometimes inaccurate but never approximate" territory.</p>
<p style="-qt-paragraph-type:empty; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; "> </p>
<p style=" margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; -qt-block-indent:0; text-indent:0px; -qt-user-state:0;">Thanks for the response and identifying the reference. Why do I get the feeling I'm not the only one to try translating that poem?
</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I haven't tried that one, but I've done a lot of other Tolkien on this list. I've gone more for the Anglo-Saxon-esque poetry and the dramatic scenes.
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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