[108826] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] bahuvrihi (was Re: Interesting time stamp; etc)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Brian Cote)
Thu Jan 5 15:32:29 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <CAFK8js2xUM1WDbg0ZmEus4kCx-z8e4ooxzQTT-ZpDaxvLq_zsg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian Cote <wearetheinformation00@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2017 14:14:29 -0500
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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I've typed up the relevant passage from the intro:
"We know that the name of the book itself, {paq'batlh}, is some form of
{no' Hol}. It is grammatically backwards from what we find in modern
Klingon (where it would be {batlh paq} or "honor book"). The character we
are rendering with an apostrophe in {paq'batlh} may be a clue to some
missing grammatical element in {no' Hol} that may explain the transposition
of words. ... The rendering of {no' Hol} words into roman letters is meant
to mimic the system used to transliterate modern Klingon, but further study
may show that another romanization system may be more revealing."
(paq'batlh intro p. xxx)
QImSIr
On Thursday, January 5, 2017, Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 1:01 AM, Anthony Appleyard <
> a.appleyard@btinternet.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','a.appleyard@btinternet.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Does Klingon language allow bahuvrihi compounds?
>>
>
> I don't see why that sort of metaphor would be forbidden in general. The
> Klingon Christmas Carol play opens with a passage including the phrase
> "dead as a {HIp Doq}", (it's translated as "red shirt"), which is exactly
> the kind of usage you're talking about.
>
>
> But I also don't see how {paq'batlh} fits the idea. The in-universe
> explanation of the anomalous apostrophe is that it's a remnant of the older
> pronunciation/spelling seen in the first part of the book. Decoding that
> "ancient" text gives a lot of insight into the "ancient" word order and
> affixes.
>
> -- ghunchu'wI'
>
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I've typed up the relevant passage from the intro:<div><br></div><div><=
span style=3D"color:rgb(69,69,69);font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-si=
ze:17px;text-decoration:-webkit-letterpress">"We know that the name of=
the book itself, {paq'batlh}, is some form of {no' Hol}. It is gra=
mmatically backwards from what we find in modern Klingon (where it would be=
{batlh paq} or "honor book"). The character we are rendering wit=
h an apostrophe in {paq'batlh} may be a clue to some missing grammatica=
l element in {no' Hol} that may explain the transposition of words. ...=
The rendering of {no' Hol} words into roman letters is meant to mimic =
the system used to transliterate modern Klingon, but further study may show=
that another romanization system may be more revealing." (paq'bat=
lh intro p. xxx)</span></div><div><font color=3D"#454545" face=3D"UICTFontT=
extStyleBody"><span style=3D"font-size:17px;text-decoration:-webkit-letterp=
ress"><br></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#454545" face=3D"UICTFont=
TextStyleBody"><span style=3D"font-size:17px;text-decoration:-webkit-letter=
press">QImSIr<br></span></font><br>On Thursday, January 5, 2017, Alan Ander=
son <<a href=3D"mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net">qunchuy@alcaco.net</a>> wr=
ote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border=
-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail=
_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 1:01 AM, Anthony =
Appleyard <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml&#=
39;,'a.appleyard@btinternet.com');" target=3D"_blank">a.appleyard@b=
tinternet.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>=
Does Klingon language allow bahuvrihi compounds?<br></div></blockquote></di=
v><br>I don't see why that sort of metaphor would be forbidden in gener=
al. The Klingon Christmas Carol play opens with a passage including the phr=
ase "dead as a {HIp Doq}", (it's translated as "red shir=
t"), which is exactly the kind of usage you're talking about.<br><=
br><br>But I also don't see how {paq'batlh} fits the idea. The in-u=
niverse explanation of the anomalous apostrophe is that it's a remnant =
of the older pronunciation/spelling seen in the first part of the book. Dec=
oding that "ancient" text gives a lot of insight into the "a=
ncient" word order and affixes.<br><br>-- ghunchu'wI'</div></d=
iv>
</blockquote></div>
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