[108756] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Quvar, QISmaS cake Davutta''a'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (mayqel qunenoS)
Sat Dec 31 12:37:24 2016
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <e561d7f7-5d22-33ed-dd21-cd254a6e2e7e@trimboli.name>
From: mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2016 19:37:19 +0200
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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bImuj. DIvI Hol vIlo'bogh 'oH DIvI Hol qaqchu''e'; not 'e' vImeq. vaj, vay'
vIpon 'e' vInIDbe'.
you're wrong. I never said that my english is the best, or the most
preferable. so, I am not trying to convince anyone, about my english
writing style.
now, as far as klingon is concerned, there is no way you can convince me
that the lack of question marks makes things difficult.
how long do you study klingon ? 20-30 years ? I have been doing this for 14
months, and the lack of question marks doesn't confuse me. So, I find hard
to believe that it is confusing to you, or others of your level.
furthermore, as I have said before, you can't execute someone on the spot
the moment he strays from canon, while at the same time condemn something
which he does, although that something stems from it.
if you accept paq'batlh as valid, then you can't say to someone "use
punctuation !". because if you do, you will be contradicting your own self.
'ej mayajchuqlaHba'be'mo' 'ej maQochbe'choH ghItlhmeH Degh vIbuSHa'choHchu'
'op lup ret QIn ghomDaq jIjatlhta' ghelmeH Degh vIlo'qang 'a DaH jaS jIwuq
'ej Hoch Deghmey vIlon
and because we are obviously unable to understand each other and agree,
from now on I will stop using any all kinds of punctuation. earlier I wrote
that I was willing to use question marks; now I changed my mind.
'ej canon 'oHmo' ghItlhmeH mIwvam'e', vIlo' vIneHchugh vaj DIbwIj 'oHbej.
and because this way of writing is canon, it is my write to use it.
qunnoH jan puqloD
ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'
On 31 Dec 2016 6:53 pm, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
> On 12/31/2016 11:21 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
>
> however, there is a major difference between the {-'a'} and punctuation in
> general.
>
> if you are reading a sentence which contains a verb bearing the {-'a'}, or
> a sentence starting with any question word, there is no way you can't
> realize instantly that it is a question.
>
> but if you are trying to read a passage with no commas and periods, then
> good luck, especially in klingon.
>
> one of the reasons I refuse to read paq'batlh is exactly this lack of
> punctuation. the problem isn't the lack of question marks; its having to be
> a psychic in order to understand where everything starts and stops.
>
> whenever voragh quotes the paq'batlh, and I am trying to read just a few
> sentences, I feel like smashing my phone against the wall.
>
> I can't help but hear myself saying "how the f*** am I supposed to
> understand this" ?
>
>
> "There is a major difference"
> "Is there a major difference"
>
> In English, there is a major difference between the same sentence in
> indicative and interrogative moods, as I have just illustrated. You can
> tell which is a statement and which is a question. So why do we have the
> question mark? Why do some languages use the question mark twice, once at
> the beginning and once at the end?
>
> So basically, we're asking why you won't follow the conventions of
> punctuation that society has agreed upon for a long time. I find your
> English-language text more difficult to read than someone else's, because
> you don't capitalize so it's hard to find the beginnings of sentences; you
> put spaces before your end-of-sentence punctuation which makes it hard to
> find the ends of sentences; you don't use apostrophes consistently so it's
> hard to tell the difference between *its* and
> *it's. *
>
> I've seen worse on the Internet:
>
> I once knew someone
> who put line breaks
> throughout his words
> like this
> because
> he thought
> it made things easier
> to read.
> Everyone yelled at him
> and told him
> it was actually harder to read
> written this way.
> He didn't believe them
> and kept on doing it
> because he was convinced
> his way was better
> than what they had learned.
> Whether or not
> it was better
> nobody else
> could read it easily
> because they hadn't been taught
> to read
> like this.
>
> OR WHY DON'T WE STICK TO ONE TYPEFACE? WHY DO WE MIX MAJUSCULES AND
> MINUSCULES WHEN ONE SIZE OF LETTERS WILL DO? it's because over the
> centuries we have found minuscule lettering is easier to read in large
> blocks, but majuscule lettering works better for emphasis, and emphasizing
> certain words in sentences by capitalizing them.
>
> I don't know the reason they chose to present *paq'batlh* without
> punctuation. It probably has something to do with trying to recreate a
> spoken song rather than a prose text; you don't usually speak punctuation
> unless you're Victor Borge.
>
> --
> SuStelhttp://trimboli.name
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>
>
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<div dir=3D"auto">bImuj. DIvI Hol vIlo'bogh 'oH DIvI Hol qaqchu'=
;'e'; not 'e' vImeq. vaj, vay' vIpon 'e' vInIDb=
e'.<div dir=3D"auto">you're wrong. I never said that my english is =
the best, or the most preferable. so, I am not trying to convince anyone, a=
bout my english writing style.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto">now, as far as klingon is concerned, there is no way you can convinc=
e me that the lack of question marks makes things difficult.</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">how long do you study klingon ? 20-30=
years ? I have been doing this for 14 months, and the lack of question mar=
ks doesn't confuse me. So, I find hard to believe that it is confusing =
to you, or others of your level.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">furthermore, as I have said before, you can't execute someone=
on the spot the moment he strays from canon, while at the same time condem=
n something which he does, although that something stems from it.</div><div=
dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">if you accept paq'batlh as va=
lid, then you can't say to someone "use punctuation !". becau=
se if you do, you will be contradicting your own self.</div><div dir=3D"aut=
o"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">'ej mayajchuqlaHba'be'mo' &#=
39;ej maQochbe'choH ghItlhmeH Degh vIbuSHa'choHchu' 'op lup=
ret QIn ghomDaq jIjatlhta' ghelmeH Degh vIlo'qang 'a DaH jaS j=
Iwuq 'ej Hoch Deghmey vIlon</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">and because we are obviously unable to understand each other and =
agree, from now on I will stop using any all kinds of punctuation. earlier =
I wrote that I was willing to use question marks; now I changed my mind.</d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">'ej canon 'oHmo=
9; ghItlhmeH mIwvam'e', vIlo' vIneHchugh vaj DIbwIj 'oHbej.=
</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">and because this way of=
writing is canon, it is my write to use it.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br><di=
v data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature" dir=3D"auto">qunnoH jan puqloD<br>ghog=
hwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'<br></div></div></div><div class=3D"gma=
il_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 31 Dec 2016 6:53 pm, "SuSt=
el" <<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">sust=
el@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
<div class=3D"m_-688111684520200331moz-cite-prefix">On 12/31/2016 11:21=
AM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">however, there is a major difference between =
the
{-'a'} and punctuation in general.
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">if you are reading a sentence which contains a
verb bearing the {-'a'}, or a sentence starting with any
question word, there is no way you can't realize instantly that
it is a question.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">but if you are trying to read a passage with no
commas and periods, then good luck, especially in klingon.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">one of the reasons I refuse to read paq'batlh i=
s
exactly this lack of punctuation. the problem isn't the lack of
question marks; its having to be a psychic in order to
understand where everything starts and stops.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">whenever voragh quotes the paq'batlh, and I am
trying to read just a few sentences, I feel like smashing my
phone against the wall.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I can't help but hear myself saying "how t=
he f***
am I supposed to understand this" ?</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>"There is a major difference"<br>
"Is there a major difference"</p>
<p>In English, there is a major difference between the same sentence
in indicative and interrogative moods, as I have just illustrated.
You can tell which is a statement and which is a question. So why
do we have the question mark? Why do some languages use the
question mark twice, once at the beginning and once at the end?<br>
</p>
<p>So basically, we're asking why you won't follow the conventi=
ons
of punctuation that society has agreed upon for a long time. I
find your English-language text more difficult to read than
someone else's, because you don't capitalize so it's hard=
to find
the beginnings of sentences; you put spaces before your
end-of-sentence punctuation which makes it hard to find the ends
of sentences; you don't use apostrophes consistently so it's =
hard
to tell the difference between <i>its</i> and <i>it's.<br>
</i></p>
<p>I've seen worse on the Internet:</p>
<p>I once knew someone<br>
who put line breaks<br>
throughout his words<br>
like this<br>
because<br>
he thought<br>
it made things easier<br>
to read.<br>
Everyone yelled at him<br>
and told him<br>
it was actually harder to read<br>
written this way.<br>
He didn't believe them<br>
and kept on doing it<br>
because he was convinced<br>
his way was better<br>
than what they had learned.<br>
Whether or not<br>
it was better<br>
nobody else<br>
could read it easily<br>
because they hadn't been taught<br>
to read<br>
like this.</p>
<p>OR WHY DON'T WE STICK TO ONE TYPEFACE? WHY DO WE MIX MAJUSCULES
AND MINUSCULES WHEN ONE SIZE OF LETTERS WILL DO? it's because ove=
r
the centuries we have found minuscule lettering is easier to read
in large blocks, but majuscule lettering works better for
emphasis, and emphasizing certain words in sentences by
capitalizing them.</p>
<p>I don't know the reason they chose to present <i>paq'batlh</=
i>
without punctuation. It probably has something to do with trying
to recreate a spoken song rather than a prose text; you don't
usually speak punctuation unless you're Victor Borge.<br>
</p>
<pre class=3D"m_-688111684520200331moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20
SuStel
<a class=3D"m_-688111684520200331moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://trim=
boli.name" target=3D"_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</div>
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><br>
<a href=3D"http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.<wbr>cgi/tlhinga=
n-hol-kli.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div></div>
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