[108652] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] to qaStaHvIS or not to qaStaHvIS
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (mayqel qunenoS)
Wed Dec 28 12:26:24 2016
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From: mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 19:26:19 +0200
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
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ghunchu'wI':
> You have not yet demonstrated your
> understanding.
I wrote earlier my understanding of time span and time stamp, through the
dialogue which took place between me and SuStel. did you expect me to write
specific examples or something ?
As far as the {Soch DIS vorgh jIQuch}, is concerned, I still can't
understand where is the problem.
As SuStel said, {Soch DIS vorgh} is a time stamp. As was said earlier in
this thread, time stamps don't require the {qaStaHvIS}. So, in the {Soch
DIS vorgh jIQuch}, where is the problem ?
You can say that for you "it doesn't convey the desired
meaning/feeling/whatever". But is it ungrammatical ?
If the sentence utilized a time span instead i.e. {Soch DIS jIQuch}, then
for the reasons SuStel explained, it would be ungrammatical. But since it
uses a time stamp, then where is the problem ?
Can you explain with reasonable arguments why I can say {DaSjaj jIQuch},
while at the same time you are telling me that I cannot say {Soch DIS vorgh
jIQuch} ?
Or is the {qaStaHvIS} another glorious "maltz said so" ? because if it is,
then hey I'm all for it ! just tell me though, and save me the grief of
trying to understand obviously contradictory explanations.
qunnoH jan puqloD
ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'
SuvwI'pu'qoq Hol tughojmoHta'mo' Satlho'
On 28 Dec 2016 6:57 pm, "Alan Anderson" <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 9:51 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ok, I understand the difference between a time span and a time stamp.
>>
>
> You have not yet demonstrated your understanding. The distinction is in
> the word "span" -- it represents a measured period of time, with a
> beginning an an end. In contrast, a "stamp" is like a finger pointing to a
> spot on a calendar, or on a clock, indicating a specific time. It isn't
> necessarily an instantaneous *moment*, but it doesn't count the passage of
> time.
>
>
>> so, applying this distinction in the {qaStaHvIS} discussion, I understand
>> that:
>>
>> "..when we are using time stamps, the {qaStaHvIS} may or may not be used,
>> depending on the occasion. but when we are using time periods, then the
>> {qaStaHvIS} is absolutely necessary.."
>>
>> would you agree with the above ?
>>
>
> I do not agree. As soon as you say {qaStaH}, you're making the phrase talk
> about a duration. It's no longer acting as a time stamp.
>
>
>> and something else. since {DIS vorgh} is a time stamp, would you agree
>> with {Soch DIS vorgh jIQuch} for "the previous 7 years I was happy" ?
>>
>
> I do not agree. The English would usually be "during the previous 7
> years". If you are trying to say something else, it is not apparent. You
> seem to be wanting to focus on a seven year span. That needs a verb to
> represent the passing of time, and the usual one is {qaStaHvIS}.
>
> -- ghunchu'wI'
>
> _______________________________________________
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> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>
>
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<div dir=3D"auto">ghunchu'wI':<div dir=3D"auto">>=C2=A0You have =
not yet demonstrated your=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">> understanding.<=
/div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I wrote earlier my under=
standing of time span and time stamp, through the dialogue which took place=
between me and SuStel. did you expect me to write specific examples or som=
ething ?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">As far as the=
=C2=A0{Soch DIS vorgh jIQuch}, is concerned, I still can't understand w=
here is the problem.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">As =
SuStel said, {Soch DIS vorgh} is a time stamp. As was said earlier in this =
thread, time stamps don't require the {qaStaHvIS}. So, in the {Soch DIS=
vorgh jIQuch}, where is the problem ?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"auto">You can say that for you "it doesn't convey the des=
ired meaning/feeling/whatever". But is it ungrammatical ?</div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">If the sentence utilized a time span=
instead i.e. {Soch DIS jIQuch}, then for the reasons SuStel explained, it =
would be ungrammatical. But since it uses a time stamp, then where is the p=
roblem ?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Can you explain=
with reasonable arguments why I can say {DaSjaj jIQuch}, while at the same=
time you are telling me that I cannot say {Soch DIS vorgh jIQuch} ?</div><=
div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Or is the {qaStaHvIS} another =
glorious "maltz said so" ? because if it is, then hey I'm all=
for it ! just tell me though, and save me the grief of trying to understan=
d obviously contradictory explanations.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br><div dat=
a-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature" dir=3D"auto">qunnoH jan puqloD<br>ghoghwIj =
HablI'vo' vIngeHta'<br>SuvwI'pu'qoq Hol tughojmoHta'=
;mo' Satlho'</div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote">On 28 Dec 2016 6:57 pm, "Alan Anderson" <=
<a href=3D"mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net" target=3D"_blank">qunchuy@alcaco.net<=
/a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, D=
ec 28, 2016 at 9:51 AM, mayqel qunenoS <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mai=
lto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>></span> w=
rote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">ok, I understand =
the difference between a time span and a time stamp.</div></blockquote><div=
><br></div><div>You have not yet demonstrated your understanding. The disti=
nction is in the word "span" -- it represents a measured period o=
f time, with a beginning an an end. In contrast, a "stamp" is lik=
e a finger pointing to a spot on a calendar, or on a clock, indicating a sp=
ecific time. It isn't necessarily an instantaneous *moment*, but it doe=
sn't count the passage of time.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto">so, applying this distinc=
tion in the {qaStaHvIS} discussion, I understand that:</div><div dir=3D"aut=
o"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">"..when we are using time stamps, the {=
qaStaHvIS} may or may not be used, depending on the occasion. but when we a=
re using time periods, then the {qaStaHvIS} is absolutely necessary.."=
</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">would you agree with th=
e above ?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I do not agree. As so=
on as you say {qaStaH}, you're making the phrase talk about a duration.=
It's no longer acting as a time stamp.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto">and something els=
e. since {DIS vorgh} is a time stamp, would you agree with {Soch DIS vorgh =
jIQuch} for "the previous 7 years I was happy" ?<br></div></div><=
/blockquote><div><br></div><div>I do not agree. The English would usually b=
e "during the previous 7 years". If you are trying to say somethi=
ng else, it is not apparent. You seem to be wanting to focus on a seven yea=
r span. That needs a verb to represent the passing of time, and the usual o=
ne is {qaStaHvIS}.<br><br>-- ghunchu'wI'</div></div></div></div>
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