[108490] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] paq'batlh mu'tlhegh
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (mayqel qunenoS)
Mon Dec 19 07:59:55 2016
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In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmN4YjV=r3JsdncARQMX8NaTUK0qi65_ATfTZj4CKBLiPA@mail.gmail.com>
From: mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 14:59:51 +0200
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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De'vID:
> {naDev ghaHtaHbogh} "here where he is"
I didn't know that the {-bogh} can express "where". if that is the case,
then I can understand the sentence from paq'batlh.
however I am curious..
in light of the {-bogh} being able to express the meaning of "where", how
would you explain the tkd p.172 sentence: {jIHtaHbogh naDev vISovbe'} ?
"here where I am being" ? but in the {naDev ghaHtaHbogh} "here where he is"
example that you wrote, the {naDev} precedes the {-bogh}..
qunnoH jan puqloD
ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'
On 19 Dec 2016 2:30 pm, "De'vID" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Dec 19, 2016 10:36, "mayqel qunenoS" <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> De'vID:
> > {naDev ghaHtaH} means "he/she is here".
>
> Yes, I can understand this; but if at the above sentence we had the
> {-bogh} ({naDev ghaHtaHbogh}), then what would that mean ?
>
>
> "here where he/she is"
>
> What's difficult about this? {-bogh} turns a sentence into a relative
> clause.
>
> {SuvwI' HoHpu'} "he killed the warrior"
> {SuvwI' HoHpu'bogh} "the warrior whom he killed"
>
> {naDev ghaHtaH} "he is here"
> {naDev ghaHtaHbogh} "here where he is"
>
> What's the difficulty? Is it that you don't accept that the location is
> the object of the pronoun/verb?
>
> Consider {pa' 'oHtaH vaS'a''e'}. What role does {pa'} play relative to
> {'oHtaH}?
>
>
> My difficulty in understanding the original paq'batlh sentence,
> had/has to do with accepting the {naDev jIHtaHbogh} as a noun.
>
>
> {[noun] [verb][suffix]bogh} is a noun. What else could it be? This is
> just a standard relative clause.
>
>
> If that sentence went: {DaH naDev jIHtaH meq Saja'}, then I could read
> it as "now, the reason of my being here, I will tell you". But the
> addition of {-bogh} severely messes me up. It is its presence that I
> can't explain.
>
>
> What you wrote is ungrammatical as a single sentence. The sentence from
> the paq'batlh is perfectly formed according to known Klingon grammar and
> has a clear meaning.
>
> --
> De'vID
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>
>
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<p dir=3D"ltr">De'vID:<br>
> {naDev ghaHtaHbogh} "here where he is"</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I didn't know that the {-bogh} can express "where&q=
uot;. if that is the case, then I can understand the sentence from paq'=
batlh.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">however I am curious..</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">in light of the {-bogh} being able to express the meaning of=
"where", how would you explain the tkd p.172 sentence: {jIHtaHbo=
gh naDev vISovbe'} ? </p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">"here where I am being" ? but in the {naDev ghaHta=
Hbogh} "here where he is" example that you wrote, the {naDev} pre=
cedes the {-bogh}..</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">qunnoH jan puqloD<br>
ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 19 Dec 2016 2:=
30 pm, "De'vID" <<a href=3D"mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com=
">de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signatu=
re" dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra" dir=3D"auto"><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote">On Dec 19, 2016 10:36, "mayqel qunenoS" <<a=
href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"m_22977886697613327=
84quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex">De'vID:<br>
<div class=3D"m_2297788669761332784quoted-text">> {naDev ghaHtaH} means =
"he/she is here".<br>
<br>
</div>Yes, I can understand this; but if at the above sentence we had the<b=
r>
{-bogh} ({naDev ghaHtaHbogh}), then what would that mean ?<br></blockquote>=
</div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">"here where =
he/she is"</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">What'=
;s difficult about this? {-bogh} turns a sentence into a relative clause.</=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">{SuvwI' HoHpu'} &=
quot;he killed the warrior"</div><div dir=3D"auto">{SuvwI' HoHpu&#=
39;bogh} "the warrior whom he killed"</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">{naDev ghaHtaH} "he is here"</div><div di=
r=3D"auto">{naDev ghaHtaHbogh} "here where he is"</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">What's the difficulty? Is it that=
you don't accept that the location is the object of the pronoun/verb?<=
/div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Consider {pa' 'o=
HtaH vaS'a''e'}. What role does {pa'} play relative to =
{'oHtaH}?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra" dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockqu=
ote class=3D"m_2297788669761332784quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">My difficulty in understanding the or=
iginal paq'batlh sentence,<br>
had/has to do with accepting the {naDev jIHtaHbogh} as a noun.<br></blockqu=
ote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">{[noun] [verb=
][suffix]bogh} is a noun. What else could it be?=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-f=
amily:sans-serif">This is just a standard relative clause.=C2=A0</span></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra" dir=3D"auto"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"m_2297788669761332784quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
If that sentence went: {DaH naDev jIHtaH meq Saja'}, then I could read<=
br>
it as "now, the reason of my being here, I will tell you". But th=
e<br>
addition of {-bogh} severely messes me up. It is its presence that I<br>
can't explain.<br></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">What you wrote is ungrammatical as a single sentence. The=
sentence from the paq'batlh is perfectly formed according to known Kli=
ngon grammar and has a clear meaning.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div=
dir=3D"auto">--=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">De'vID</div><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra" dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"=
m_2297788669761332784quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
solid;padding-left:1ex"></blockquote></div></div></div>
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