[108327] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] How do you explain {'InSong} ?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Sat Dec 10 06:30:38 2016
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2016 11:30:29 +0000
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cJnVSWPccYCgVQUBY7DZxgMRkR-1X=K+HUp2XTMeMKR7w@mail.gmail.com>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
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It's worth stating that I don't believe the rules of Klingon syllable struc=
ture have ever been directly stated, but rather this is based on observatio=
n.
The majority of all cases can be described as such:
Every syllable begins with a consonant, followed by a vowel.
This may be (and usually is) followed by a consonant, or one of the three p=
ermissible terminal consonant clusters: -rgh, -w' or -y'.
No syllable ends on -ow, -ow', -uw or -uw'.
So single syllable options are:
CV - tI Do ta ...
CVC - batlh chuch por ...
CVrgh - 'argh burgh qorgh ...
CVw' - maw' law' ghaw' ... (interestingly, there don't appear to be any -e=
w' or -Iw' words)
CVy' - lay' loy' bey' ... (no known -Iy' examples)
After one of these, you are freee tonstart a new syllable, which may also f=
ollow any of these forms.
For example:
CVC-CVC - 'InSong, bobcho', lalDan
CV-CVC - lulIgh, qama'
CVC-CV - HaSta, yergho
CV-CV-CVC - verengan
CVC-CV-CVC - Ha'DIbaH
In the event where the forst syllable is simply CV (tera'ngan, lulIgh, bIre=
Qtagh, ...), there may be room for interpretation where one syllable ends a=
nd the other ends. Normally, the CV syllable gets "swallowed", so that the =
two syllables almost sound like one; tera' sounds like "vra" and verengan s=
ounds like "vrengan".
This confusion might also arise when using the -oy suffix. Is this the only=
syllable that can begin on a vowel? Or does it change the stress pattern o=
f the word it's appended to in such a way that the syllable becomes -Coy? (=
for example, would jupoy be ju-poy, perhaps just ending up sounding like "j=
poy"?)
There are still exceptions to these "rules", such as those seen in non-Klin=
ogn names (qIrq, pIqarD, 'oqranD) and in no' Hol (paq'batlh, tog'det q'uti =
'qoolit).
Best wishes,
loghaD (CV-CVC)
10 dec. 2016 kl. 11:27 skrev mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com<mailto:mihko=
un@gmail.com>>:
lieven:
> '-I-n =3D C-V-C
> S-o-ng =3D C-V-C
> Why the confusion?
according to the rule of cvc, how come that after the {n} the {S} follows ?=
this produces (cvccvc).
the rule refers to clusters of three (cvc-cvc-cvc), or does it go like (cvc=
vcvcvc..) ? so far I thought that according to this rule, right after a con=
sonant always a vowel follows.
qunnoH jan puqloD
ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'
On 10 Dec 2016 12:16 pm, "Lieven" <levinius@gmx.de<mailto:levinius@gmx.de>>=
wrote:
Am 10.12.2016 um 11:01 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
we are always saying that klingon phonology utilizes cvc. so, how do you
explain {'InSong} ?
'-I-n =3D C-V-C
S-o-ng =3D C-V-C
Why the confusion?
--
Lieven L. Litaer
aka Quvar valer 'utlh
Grammarian of the KLI
http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher
http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Phonology
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<div>It's worth stating that I don't believe the rules of Klingon syllable =
structure have ever been directly stated, but rather this is based on obser=
vation.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The majority of all cases can be described as such:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Every syllable begins with a consonant, followed by a vowel.</div>
<div>This may be (and usually is) followed by a consonant, or one of the th=
ree permissible terminal consonant clusters: -rgh, -w' or -y'.</div>
<div>No syllable ends on -ow, -ow', -uw or -uw'.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So single syllable options are:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>CV - tI Do ta ...</div>
<div>CVC - batlh chuch por ...</div>
<div>CVrgh - 'argh burgh qorgh ...</div>
<div>CVw' - maw' law' ghaw' ... (interestingly, there don't appear to=
be any -ew' or -Iw' words)</div>
<div>CVy' - lay' loy' bey' ... (no known -Iy' examples)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>After one of these, you are freee tonstart a new syllable, which may a=
lso follow any of these forms.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For example:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>CVC-CVC - 'InSong, bobcho', lalDan</div>
<div>CV-CVC - lulIgh, qama'</div>
<div>CVC-CV - HaSta, yergho</div>
<div>CV-CV-CVC - verengan</div>
<div><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">CVC-CV-CVC -=
Ha'DIbaH</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In the event where the forst syllable is simply CV (tera'ngan, lulIgh,=
bIreQtagh, ...), there may be room for interpretation where one syllable e=
nds and the other ends. Normally, the CV syllable gets "swallowed"=
;, so that the two syllables almost sound
like one; tera' sounds like "vra" and verengan sounds like "=
;vrengan".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This confusion might also arise when using the -oy suffix. Is this the=
only syllable that can begin on a vowel? Or does it change the stress patt=
ern of the word it's appended to in such a way that the syllable becomes -C=
oy? (for example, would jupoy be
ju-poy, perhaps just ending up sounding like "jpoy"?)</div>
<div><br>
<div>There are still exceptions to these "rules", such as those s=
een in non-Klinogn names (qIrq, pIqarD, 'oqranD) and in no' Hol (paq'batlh,=
tog'det q'uti 'qoolit).</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>Best wishes,</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">loghaD (CV-CVC)<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
10 dec. 2016 kl. 11:27 skrev mayqel qunenoS <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@g=
mail.com">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<p dir=3D"ltr">lieven:<br>
> '-I-n =3D C-V-C<br>
> S-o-ng =3D C-V-C<br>
> Why the confusion?</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">according to the rule of cvc, how come that after the {n} th=
e {S} follows ? this produces (cvccvc).</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">the rule refers to clusters of three (cvc-cvc-cvc), or does =
it go like (cvcvcvcvc..) ? so far I thought that according to this rule, ri=
ght after a consonant always a vowel follows.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">qunnoH jan puqloD<br>
ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 10 Dec 2016 12:16 pm, "Lieven" <=
<a href=3D"mailto:levinius@gmx.de">levinius@gmx.de</a>> wrote:<br type=
=3D"attribution">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Am 10.12.2016 um 11:01 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
we are always saying that klingon phonology utilizes cvc. so, how do you<br=
>
explain {'InSong} ?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
'-I-n =3D C-V-C<br>
S-o-ng =3D C-V-C<br>
<br>
Why the confusion?<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Lieven L. Litaer<br>
aka Quvar valer 'utlh<br>
Grammarian of the KLI<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.facebook.com/Klingo<wbr>nteacher</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Phonology" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/<wbr>Phonology</a><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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l@lists.kli.org</a><br>
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oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.<wbr>cgi/tlhinga=
n-hol-kli.org</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
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