[102696] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] beyn Dartlh
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?=)
Tue Dec 1 07:51:04 2015
In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmMcqbwKb_8i5BzaORCO0ApH-MSi8Y=HmkK-YWZ1MaTmLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 13:50:46 +0100
From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?= <esperantist@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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In addition to what De'vID quoted, I had a look at the sentences in which
{-Daq} appears and they're all real locations where things or beings can
be, like room, spaceship, rivers, planets, sometimes people ("within you" =
=3D
{SoHDaq}). But we have one example from the paq'batlh:
{yIntaHbogh nuvpu'Daq / HItlhej HItlhej HItlhej / 'ej nItebHa' molor wISuv.=
}
=C2=ABCome, come, come / With me to the living, / And fight Molor with me.=
=C2=BB
lit.: "To the people who are living / accompany me, accompany me, accompany
me / and we fight Molor together."
At first I thought this might be understood as "among the people", but
since {-Daq} can also mean 'to(ward) something', this is probably the
prefered reading. And then people can be a genuine place, too.
So, we don't have any non-local meanings for {-Daq}, it seems. Okrand
consistently used it only for places.
- Andr=C3=A9
2015-12-01 12:34 GMT+01:00 De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>:
> qunnoQ HoD:
> > Where does he write that {-Daq}
> > is *exclusively* to be used for physical locations ?
>
> In a message to the startrek.klingon newsgroup dated Mar. 23, 1998,
> Marc Okrand wrote:
> <<In English, the preposition "in" is sometimes locative (that is,
> referring
> to location) in meaning (e.g., "in the house," "on the table") but
> sometimes not (as in the examples cited above, "trust in God," "believe i=
n
> magic"). In fact, in English, "in" frequently doesn't have a literally
> locative sense. We use it all over the place: "in debt," "work in
> television," "in preparing this report," "speaking in Klingon," and so on=
.
> Likewise, in addition to the locative uses of the English preposition
> "from" ("run from the burning house," "traveled from Paris"), there are
> non-locative uses ("know right from wrong," "stop me from eating"). The
> story's the same for other English prepositions (for example, locative "o=
n
> the table," non-locative "go on with your story"; locative "under the
> table," non-locative "under discussion").
>
> In Klingon, however, the noun suffixes {-Daq} (the general locative) and
> {-vo'} "from" express only notions related to space ("to a place," "in a
> place," "from a place," and so on). They are thus not the same as Englis=
h
> prepositions, which have a wider range of usage.>>
>
> --
> De'vID
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>In addition to what De'vID quoted, I had a look a=
t the sentences in which {-Daq} appears and they're all real locations =
where things or beings can be, like room, spaceship, rivers, planets, somet=
imes people ("within you" =3D {SoHDaq}). But we have one example =
from the paq'batlh:<br><br>{yIntaHbogh nuvpu'Daq / HItlhej HItlhej =
HItlhej / 'ej nItebHa' molor wISuv.}<span class=3D""><br>=C2=ABCome=
, come, come / With me to the living, / And fight Molor with me.=C2=BB<br><=
/span></div><div><span class=3D"">lit.: "To the people who are living =
/ accompany me, accompany me, accompany me / and we fight Molor together.&q=
uot;<br></span></div><span class=3D""></span><div><br></div><div>At first I=
thought this might be understood as "among the people", but sinc=
e {-Daq} can also mean 'to(ward) something', this is probably the p=
refered reading. And then people can be a genuine place, too.<br><br></div>=
<div>So, we don't have any non-local meanings for {-Daq}, it seems. Okr=
and consistently used it only for places.<br></div><div>- Andr=C3=A9<br></d=
iv></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2015-12-=
01 12:34 GMT+01:00 De'vID <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:de.vi=
d.jonpin@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com</a>></span=
>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">qunnoQ HoD:<br>
<span class=3D"">> Where does he write that {-Daq}<br>
> is *exclusively* to be used for physical locations ?<br>
<br>
</span>In a message to the startrek.klingon newsgroup dated Mar. 23, 1998,<=
br>
Marc Okrand wrote:<br>
<<In English, the preposition "in" is sometimes locative (t=
hat is, referring<br>
to location) in meaning (e.g., "in the house," "on the table=
") but<br>
sometimes not (as in the examples cited above, "trust in God," &q=
uot;believe in<br>
magic").=C2=A0 In fact, in English, "in" frequently doesn=
9;t have a literally<br>
locative sense.=C2=A0 We use it all over the place:=C2=A0 "in debt,&qu=
ot; "work in<br>
television," "in preparing this report," "speaking in K=
lingon," and so on.<br>
Likewise, in addition to the locative uses of the English preposition<br>
"from" ("run from the burning house," "traveled fr=
om Paris"), there are<br>
non-locative uses ("know right from wrong," "stop me from ea=
ting").=C2=A0 The<br>
story's the same for other English prepositions (for example, locative =
"on<br>
the table," non-locative "go on with your story"; locative &=
quot;under the<br>
table," non-locative "under discussion").<br>
<br>
In Klingon, however, the noun suffixes {-Daq} (the general locative) and<br=
>
{-vo'} "from" express only notions related to space ("to=
a place," "in a<br>
place," "from a place," and so on).=C2=A0 They are thus not =
the same as English<br>
prepositions, which have a wider range of usage.>><br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
--<br>
De'vID<br>
</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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