[102677] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Pronouncing Klingon correctly
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Will Martin)
Mon Nov 30 09:30:48 2015
From: Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <11378111.371.1448864405016.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 09:30:33 -0500
To: tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Okrand has repeatedly pointed out that he split {t} and {D} specifically =
to make the Klingon phoneme set as alien as possible, since human =
languages may pronounce all Ds and Ts dentally, as does English, or =
palatially as do some middle-eastern languages, or may use all four =
consonants (dental and palatial versions of each of the two consonants), =
but none of them use one dental and the other palatial.
He didn=E2=80=99t do it because of English, regardless of regional =
accent. He did it to be non-human. It=E2=80=99s a pride point for him, =
judging by how many times I=E2=80=99ve heard or read him explain that. =
It=E2=80=99s one of his language-geeky things in the language, judging =
by the way that he seems perpetually disappointed that people don=E2=80=99=
t notice and appreciate this more than they do.
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
> On Nov 30, 2015, at 1:20 AM, Anthony Appleyard =
<a.appleyard@btinternet.com> wrote:
>=20
> This subject is handled in the book "Klingon for the Galactic =
Traveller", which I have. But it omits one source of trouble.
>=20
> I am British and I pronounce {t} and {d} correctly everywhere, =
naturally from babyhood. But most Americans seem to mishandle {t}, =
pronouncing it as {d} except at starts of words, e.g. "latter" as =
"ladder". And many seem to mishandle {d} also, inside words or at the =
ends of words, slurring it or dropping it. And this may carry across =
into their pronunciation of Klingon. (I wonder if this is why Marc =
Okrand chose the opposition {t} (not retroflex) versus {D} (retroflex). =
to distinnguish.)
>=20
> (OK, OK, 'ej jiQagh, with the {r} sound, dropping it at the ends of =
syllables as in standard British English, e.g. pronouncing "Thor" the =
same as "thaw", and "horse" as "hawss".)
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Okrand has repeatedly pointed out that he =
split {t} and {D} specifically to make the Klingon phoneme set as alien =
as possible, since human languages may pronounce all Ds and Ts dentally, =
as does English, or palatially as do some middle-eastern languages, or =
may use all four consonants (dental and palatial versions of each of the =
two consonants), but none of them use one dental and the other =
palatial.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">He =
didn=E2=80=99t do it because of English, regardless of regional accent. =
He did it to be non-human. It=E2=80=99s a pride point for him, judging =
by how many times I=E2=80=99ve heard or read him explain that. It=E2=80=99=
s one of his language-geeky things in the language, judging by the way =
that he seems perpetually disappointed that people don=E2=80=99t notice =
and appreciate this more than they do.</div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class=3D"">pItlh</div><div =
class=3D"">lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></span><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Nov 30, 2015, at 1:20 AM, Anthony Appleyard <<a =
href=3D"mailto:a.appleyard@btinternet.com" =
class=3D"">a.appleyard@btinternet.com</a>> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">This subject is =
handled in the book "Klingon for the Galactic Traveller", which I have. =
But it omits one source of trouble.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I am =
British and I pronounce {t} and {d} correctly everywhere, naturally from =
babyhood. But most Americans seem to mishandle {t}, pronouncing it as =
{d} except at starts of words, e.g. "latter" as "ladder". And many =
seem to mishandle {d} also, inside words or at the ends of words, =
slurring it or dropping it. And this may carry across into their =
pronunciation of Klingon. (I wonder if this is why Marc Okrand chose the =
opposition {t} (not retroflex) versus {D} (retroflex). to =
distinnguish.)<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">(OK, OK, 'ej jiQagh, with =
the {r} sound, dropping it at the ends of syllables as in standard =
British English, e.g. pronouncing "Thor" the same as "thaw", and "horse" =
as "hawss".)<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br =
class=3D"">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=
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