[102474] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Tlhingan-hol Digest, Vol 51, Issue 138
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (DloraH)
Fri Nov 20 20:26:22 2015
From: "DloraH" <seruq@bellsouth.net>
To: <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 19:26:15 -0600
In-Reply-To: <CAOJo7iqtVPUwixXcnoF08Jmsz1wTYLUpDkr0pXOpr5PEOqUKdA@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
> > When there is motion from one place to another, is it
> > appropriate/acceptable to specify both places? And more
> > specifically, is
> > it acceptable to specify multiple objects/non-objects?
> >
> > pa'vo' pa'Daq vIHtaH qa'
> ...
> The spirit keeps moving from room to room.
> Yes, you can specify both places with {-vo'} and {-Daq}.
> There's no grammatical or stylistic reason to not specify, if
> you want.
We have some canon related to this.
HolQeD 8:4
>>>
There is an idiomatic expression
still head with reasonable frequency
which makes use of all three
cardinal direction terms:
{tIngvo' 'evDaq chanDaq}
Literally, this means <from area-
sothwestward to area northwestward
to area eastward>'' ({-Daq}, the locative [[''=>]]
suffix, here indicating <to>), but the
idiom means ``all around, all over,
all over the place.'' It is used in the
same place in a sentence in that the
noun {Dat} <everywhere> might be used,
but it is much more emphatic:
{tIngvo' 'evDaq chanDaq jIlengpu'}
I've traveled all over the place
A more archaic form of the
idiom is {tIngvo' 'evDaq 'evvo'
chanDaq} (literally, <from area-
southwestward to area-northwestward,
from area-northwestward to area
eastward>), but the three-word
version (without the repetition of
{'ev}) has all but totally replaced it.
<<<
- DloraH
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John R. Harness [mailto:cartweel@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2015 18:50
> To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Tlhingan-hol Digest, Vol 51, Issue 138
>
> Hi! Thanks for using the KLBC tag!
>
>
> Yes, you can specify both places with {-vo'} and {-Daq}.
> There's no grammatical or stylistic reason to not specify, if
> you want.
>
>
> Now, if you are trying to translate "from room to room," then
> you do need to be careful that you're not shoehorning the
> English phrase. But, as you go on to show, there are a
> variety of ways that you could express the idea -- what you
> choose to use comes down to style. You can decide whether to
> use a more specific verb (as you do with {chegh}) or you
> could restate as multiple phrases, as you also show.
>
>
> For what it's worth, your translations of your examples leave
> me wondering if you are speaking of a spirit moving from one
> room into another, or of a spirit who is only going into and
> out of one room. Perhaps you could make this less ambiguous
> by choosing to use {-vam} and {-vetlh}, if it is relevant.
>
>
> 'arHa
>
> Beginner's Grammarian
>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 18:26:17 -0500
> From: fata irae <fatairae@gmail.com>
> To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: multiple locatives
> Message-ID:
>
> <CA+_YdevDa=Y3r_XnE7bj1iQ-gYfvMCSchcRfeXV=4AJU5AjqCQ@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> When there is motion from one place to another, is it
> appropriate/acceptable to specify both places? And more
> specifically, is
> it acceptable to specify multiple objects/non-objects?
>
> pa'vo' pa'Daq vIHtaH qa'
> The spirit keeps moving from room to room.
>
> Or is this an example of shoe-horning a english construct to tlhIngan?
> Would it be more appropriate (following simplicity), to say:
>
> pa'vo' vIHtaH qa', 'ej pa'Daq vIHtaH qa'
> The spirit keeps moving from the room, and keeps going to the room.
>
> Or perhaps more eloquently,
> 'ej pa'Daq cheghtaH.
> and keeps returning to the room.
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