[102163] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Beginner's Grammarian: The hunt is on
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (qunnoQ HoD)
Tue Nov 10 12:40:48 2015
In-Reply-To: <B09C6C0C-2C1F-41D5-9486-F04BAAC5713C@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 19:40:24 +0200
From: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org"
<tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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on the subject of "one answer to a beginner's question or many" I believe
there is no right/wrong response ; It depends on the individual beginner
and how his own mind is wired to work. Personally, I love many answers to a
single question,because all those multiple answers challenge me to sort
them out,thus learning more efficiently in the end.
with regards to facebook and any other kind of social networking, I haven't
ever made any use of them,nor do I plan to in the future. Again this is a
personal choice. It is far more convenient to check my mail,than to be
constantly logging in and out from various social networks. But again,this
is a matter of personal taste.
I don't see a reason though,why anything should change in the function of a
mailing list,which exists from 1993..
cpt qunnoQ
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Fatairae <fatairae@gmail.com> wrote:
> While I agree that FB provides better organization for its threads and
> messages, the fact that it is reliant on their storage for the msgs makes
> it difficult to use. With mail, I can easily copy, paste, and store
> comments, even when not connected to the Internet. Just my two cents as =
a
> newcomer to the group.
>
> I agree wholeheartedly with Lieven on the subject of mass responses vs a
> single organized response; while learning, I find it's easier to
> internalize a single answer, and later learn the variants, rather then tr=
y
> to sort out 50, not knowing what of which is best.
> Having a single "beginners" answer, perhaps followed by the wisdom of
> the community, would make it much easier to internalize.
>
> On Nov 10, 2015, at 11:08, Karen Alessio <karenalessio@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I just joined the klingon groups there on FB... the only thing I see bein=
g
> a privacy issue is that they are "open groups" which means anything you
> post there can show up on friends' newsfeeds.... which i imagine can get
> annoying for your friends. but a good workaround was suggested, to use a
> special email address for signing up with no contacts in the address book=
,
> and dont "friend" anyone non-klingon affiliated. I'm just using my regula=
r
> FB account, but my friends are mostly geeks too, and I hope they dont min=
d.
> lol
> On Nov 10, 2015 11:01 AM, "qurgh lungqIj" <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
>
>> NO NO NO NO NO!!! This is fear mongering and just isn't true! One only
>> tosses all pretense of privacy to the wind if one tells Facebook everyth=
ing
>> about one's life. One has the control until one gives it up.
>>
>> To sign up for Facebook the only thing you have to give is a name and an
>> email address. That's it. If you're really paranoid, create a new email
>> account and use a fake name, then only join the Learn Klingon group and
>> lock down everything else.
>>
>> You chose what to share on Facebook, not Facebook. You choose who to
>> friend on Facebook, not Facebook. You chose what to post on Facebook, no=
t
>> Facebook. If you don't want Facebook knowing something, don't tell
>> Facebook!
>>
>> Sure Facebook can track what we say in and about Klingon, but so can the
>> whole world with this mailing list because we make it public. If we are
>> creating public information, why does it matter if a company uses it? Th=
ey
>> could use it now.
>>
>> qurgh
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com=
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I understand that Facebook is the wave of the future, but I=E2=80=99d j=
ust like
>>> to point out that by using it, one tosses all pretense of privacy to th=
e
>>> wind. We willingly give lots of personal information and links to all t=
he
>>> people and groups we choose to associate with to a corporation with a
>>> reputation for trying really hard to be as fascist as possible, backing=
off
>>> only when there=E2=80=99s an outcry about something specific that they=
=E2=80=99ve done that
>>> pisses off hundreds of thousands of people.
>>>
>>> Basically, the corporation has a psychopathic attitude =E2=80=94 that w=
e are
>>> objects to be manipulated for its profit and advantage with minimal con=
cern
>>> for our well-being as living entities. We provide them with data and wi=
th
>>> connections. Some wonder how Facebook is so good at guessing who our
>>> friends are, completely blind to the simple fact that our friends TOLD =
them
>>> that we are friends, or that we have mathematically derivable combinati=
ons
>>> of common friends that suggest that we should be associated with one
>>> another. Facebook then asks you to confirm those associations to improv=
e
>>> the accuracy of their data.
>>>
>>> If one of the governments where this multinational corporation maintain=
s
>>> servers decides to persecute political undesirables and those associate=
d
>>> with them, this data would become remarkably valuable, and for a
>>> corporation whose only concern is profit, value means profit. There are
>>> people in China right now who are in prison for their political interes=
ts
>>> because Yahoo decided to hand over data the government asked for rather
>>> than lose the profitable Chinese market. Tell me that Facebook doesn=E2=
=80=99t
>>> consider that a reasonable business decision.
>>>
>>> So, I don=E2=80=99t much care if mailing lists are considered quaint. D=
o what
>>> you like on Facebook. Do what you dare there.
>>>
>>> I use it for one small part of my life, for promotional purposes,
>>> figuring that dancing is harmless enough that being identified as a dan=
cer
>>> probably won=E2=80=99t land me in prison even in the future, unless the=
radical
>>> Baptists take over, and even with that relatively safe topic, I feel ic=
ky
>>> and consider withdrawing. I feel like I SHOULD withdraw.
>>>
>>> But hey, it=E2=80=99s popular, and we want to be popular, so I guess th=
at trumps
>>> any concerns about improving the data collected by a heartless, evil,
>>> multi-national corporation for some future use over which we=E2=80=99ll=
have no
>>> influence at the time. That regret is in the future. Maybe we=E2=80=99l=
l be dead by
>>> then. No sense showing any caution now, before that happens, right?
>>>
>>> pItlh
>>> lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 10, 2015, at 9:53 AM, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 6:09 AM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 10.11.2015 um 03:56 schrieb qurgh lungqIj:
>>>>
>>>>> One of the reason the old BG line was broken, was that there wasn't
>>>>> enough traffic on the list to warrant a new BG.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For anyone interested: I made an anlysis of the traffic simply based o=
n
>>>> the archive, right here:
>>>> www.klingonwiki.net/En/EmailDiscussionForum
>>>
>>>
>>> That's good info. Back when the BG was going strong we got at least
>>> 5000+ messages. The position seems to have died when we dropped down to
>>> around 2000.
>>>
>>> I'd be interested to see membership levels over the same time period.
>>> Unfortunately we don't have access to any of that kind of data.
>>>
>>>
>>>> in activity due to qunnoQ and the new words has been great, is it real=
ly
>>>>> enough to warrant a new BG?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes. I would say it is, even with very few beginners, there should be
>>>> someone appointed to welcome these. Even if traffic slows down, even w=
ith
>>>> only one newbie in one month, there should be someone to say hello. Wh=
at
>>>> can happen? A workless BG will not starve to death.
>>>>
>>>
>>> True, but is a workless BG worthy of the title of "Grammarian" after
>>> helping three or four people over a year? I (and others) have helped wa=
y
>>> more people than that for the past two years in the "Learn Klingon" gro=
up.
>>> If we are going to tie a title to dealing with a workload, then that
>>> workload needs to be equal for each participant in my opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> We've seen recently what should be avoided by a BG: beginners ask a
>>>> question and either get ten answers at once, or none at all. That's w=
hy we
>>>> need a BG.
>>>
>>>
>>> Except that when I mentioned this same thing on Facebook, Qov said
>>> something along the lines of "It's good for them to get multiple answer=
s,
>>> then they know it's not being made up" so there appears to be counter
>>> arguments to this part of the BG paradigm. I also think that multiple
>>> different descriptions of the same thing is very helpful for a student,=
as
>>> it gives them multiple view-points to look from. We also have enough pe=
ople
>>> that each one of the four beginners that have recently raised their han=
ds
>>> could get their own, personal, BG. Why dump all the work on one person?=
If
>>> the goal is to help people learn, then giving them one-on-one service s=
eems
>>> like it would be them most efficient system.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> People just don't use mailing lists the way they used to
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's true, it's almost an oldfashioned way of communication, many
>>>> prefer facebook which they can use o their phone, instead of an email
>>>> account you need to log in or use a special software on your computer.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Here's what a new student looking to learn Klingon said about mailing
>>> lists: "Wow, a mailing list - makes me feel like using Windows 95 or
>>> something!"
>>>
>>> Also we just had someone ask for the Facebook group as it would seem
>>> they prefer that format.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nevertheless, it still has more advanteages than Facebook, eespecially
>>>> archiving and searching treads.
>>>
>>>
>>> Facebook groups have both archiving and searching. They do keyword
>>> searching just like we do on the KLI site.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Facebook group has over 900 members and adds more weekly).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Although many people join groups only because "Hey look, I'm in a
>>>> group".
>>>
>>>
>>> That argument was true for this list for many many many years. Just loo=
k
>>> through the archives for all the spam. Also look through it for all the
>>> "How do I get off this list?" messages from people not reading the intr=
o
>>> message. We also had to deal with people subscribing others to the list=
. At
>>> least with Facebook you can see every person that is joining and they h=
ave
>>> to be approved, and spam is quick and easy to deal with. In fact, being=
the
>>> BG might be easier on Facebook, since they could send a personalized
>>> private message to each person as they join.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> While the BG role has been very important in the past, perhaps we shou=
ld
>>>>> look at other ways to use the list in lieu of new students.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I still think that it's good to have somebody "in charge", so that
>>>> newbies know where the teacher is. Just somebody who is "always around=
",
>>>> someone to trust.
>>>
>>>
>>> I have no issue with someone being in charge. In fact, I've been lookin=
g
>>> for someone to take on the running on this email list for over a year (=
with
>>> no luck, so I've been doing that too), although by "in charge" you real=
ly
>>> mean "keeping an eye on the messages and responding to certain things".
>>> Technically this list could disappear tomorrow and there's nothing any =
of
>>> us could do about it.
>>>
>>> qurgh
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>>> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>>> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>>> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>>> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>on the subject of "one answer to a beg=
inner's question or many" I believe there is no right/wrong respon=
se ; It depends on the individual beginner and how his own mind is wired to=
work. Personally, I love many answers to a single question,because all tho=
se multiple answers challenge me to sort them out,thus learning more effici=
ently in the end.<br></div>with regards to facebook and any other kind of s=
ocial networking, I haven't ever made any use of them,nor do I plan to =
in the future. Again this is a personal choice. It is far more convenient t=
o check my mail,than to be constantly logging in and out from various socia=
l networks. But again,this is a matter of personal taste.<br></div>I don=
9;t see a reason though,why anything should change in the function of a mai=
ling list,which exists from 1993..<br><br></div>cpt qunnoQ<br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at =
7:05 PM, Fatairae <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:fatairae@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">fatairae@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div>While I agree that FB provides =
better organization for its threads and messages, the fact that it is relia=
nt on their storage for the msgs makes it difficult to use.=C2=A0 With mail=
, I can easily copy, paste, and store comments, even when not connected to =
the Internet.=C2=A0 Just my two cents as a newcomer to the group.</div><div=
><br></div><div>I agree wholeheartedly with Lieven on the subject of mass r=
esponses vs a single organized response; while learning, I find it's ea=
sier to internalize a single answer, and later learn the variants, rather t=
hen try to sort out 50, not knowing what of which is best.</div><div>=C2=A0=
Having a single "beginners" answer, perhaps followed by the wisd=
om of the community, would make it much easier to internalize.</div><div><d=
iv class=3D"h5"><div><br>On Nov 10, 2015, at 11:08, Karen Alessio <<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:karenalessio@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">karenalessio@gmail.c=
om</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div><p dir=3D"ltr">I just joined the klingo=
n groups there on FB... the only thing I see being a privacy issue is that =
they are "open groups" which means anything you post there can sh=
ow up on friends' newsfeeds.... which i imagine can get annoying for yo=
ur friends. but a good workaround was suggested, to use a special email add=
ress for signing up with no contacts in the address book, and dont "fr=
iend" anyone non-klingon affiliated. I'm just using my regular FB =
account, but my friends are mostly geeks too, and I hope they dont mind. lo=
l</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Nov 10, 2015 11:01 AM, "qurgh lungqIj&qu=
ot; <<a href=3D"mailto:qurgh@wizage.net" target=3D"_blank">qurgh@wizage.=
net</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div>NO NO NO NO NO!!! This is fear mongering and just isn&=
#39;t true! One only tosses all pretense of privacy to the wind if one tell=
s Facebook everything about one's life. One has the control until one g=
ives it up.</div><div><br></div><div>To sign up for Facebook the only thing=
you have to give is a name and an email address. That's it. If you'=
;re really paranoid, create a new email account and use a fake name, then o=
nly join the Learn Klingon group and lock down everything else.</div><div><=
br></div><div>You chose what to share on Facebook, not Facebook. You choose=
who to friend on Facebook, not Facebook. You chose what to post on Faceboo=
k, not Facebook. If you don't want Facebook knowing something, don'=
t tell Facebook!=C2=A0<br></div><div><br></div><div>Sure Facebook can track=
what we say in and about Klingon, but so can the whole world with this mai=
ling list because we make it public. If we are creating public information,=
why does it matter if a company uses it? They could use it now.=C2=A0</div=
><div><br></div><div>qurgh</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Will Martin <span dir=3D=
"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lo=
jmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>I understand that Facebook is=
the wave of the future, but I=E2=80=99d just like to point out that by usi=
ng it, one tosses all pretense of privacy to the wind. We willingly give lo=
ts of personal information and links to all the people and groups we choose=
to associate with to a corporation with a reputation for trying really har=
d to be as fascist as possible, backing off only when there=E2=80=99s an ou=
tcry about something specific that they=E2=80=99ve done that pisses off hun=
dreds of thousands of people.</div><div><br></div><div>Basically, the corpo=
ration has a psychopathic attitude =E2=80=94 that we are objects to be mani=
pulated for its profit and advantage with minimal concern for our well-bein=
g as living entities. We provide them with data and with connections. Some =
wonder how Facebook is so good at guessing who our friends are, completely =
blind to the simple fact that our friends TOLD them that we are friends, or=
that we have mathematically derivable combinations of common friends that =
suggest that we should be associated with one another. Facebook then asks y=
ou to confirm those associations to improve the accuracy of their data.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>If one of the governments where this multinational co=
rporation maintains servers decides to persecute political undesirables and=
those associated with them, this data would become remarkably valuable, an=
d for a corporation whose only concern is profit, value means profit. There=
are people in China right now who are in prison for their political intere=
sts because Yahoo decided to hand over data the government asked for rather=
than lose the profitable Chinese market. Tell me that Facebook doesn=E2=80=
=99t consider that a reasonable business decision.</div><div><br></div><div=
>So, I don=E2=80=99t much care if mailing lists are considered quaint. Do w=
hat you like on Facebook. Do what you dare there.</div><div><br></div><div>=
I use it for one small part of my life, for promotional purposes, figuring =
that dancing is harmless enough that being identified as a dancer probably =
won=E2=80=99t land me in prison even in the future, unless the radical Bapt=
ists take over, and even with that relatively safe topic, I feel icky and c=
onsider withdrawing. I feel like I SHOULD withdraw.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>But hey, it=E2=80=99s popular, and we want to be popular, so I guess that=
trumps any concerns about improving the data collected by a heartless, evi=
l, multi-national corporation for some future use over which we=E2=80=99ll =
have no influence at the time. That regret is in the future. Maybe we=E2=80=
=99ll be dead by then. No sense showing any caution now, before that happen=
s, right?</div><br><div>
<span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvet=
ica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing=
:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-tra=
nsform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div>pItlh</div><div>lojmI=
t tI'wI'nuv</div><div><br></div></span><br>
</div>
<br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div><div>On Nov 10, 2015, at 9:53 =
AM, qurgh lungqIj <<a href=3D"mailto:qurgh@wizage.net" target=3D"_blank"=
>qurgh@wizage.net</a>> wrote:</div><br></div></div><div><div><div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, No=
v 10, 2015 at 6:09 AM, Lieven <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:levin=
ius@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">levinius@gmx.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left=
-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;paddi=
ng-left:1ex"><span>Am 10.11.2015 um 03:56 schrieb qurgh lungqIj:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
One of the reason the old BG line was broken, was that there wasn't<br>
enough traffic on the list to warrant a new BG.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
For anyone interested: I made an anlysis of the traffic simply based on the=
archive, right here:<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/EmailDiscussionForum" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">www.klingonwiki.net/En/EmailDiscussionForum</a></b=
lockquote><div><br></div><div>That's good info. Back when the BG was go=
ing strong we got at least 5000+ messages. The position seems to have died =
when we dropped down to around 2000.</div><div><br></div><div>I'd be in=
terested to see membership levels over the same time period. Unfortunately =
we don't have access to any of that kind of data.</div><div>=C2=A0</div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;=
padding-left:1ex"><span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);b=
order-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">in activity due to qunnoQ and the =
new words has been great, is it really<br>
enough to warrant a new BG?<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
Yes. I would say it is, even with very few beginners, there should be someo=
ne appointed to welcome these. Even if traffic slows down, even with only o=
ne newbie in one month, there should be someone to say hello. What can happ=
en? A workless BG will not starve to death.<br></blockquote><div><br></div>=
<div>True, but is a workless BG worthy of the title of "Grammarian&quo=
t; after helping three or four people over a year? I (and others) have help=
ed way more people than that for the past two years in the "Learn Klin=
gon" group. If we are going to tie a title to dealing with a workload,=
then that workload needs to be equal for each participant in my opinion.</=
div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">We've seen recentl=
y what should be avoided by a BG: beginners ask a question and either get t=
en answers at once, or none at all. That's=C2=A0 why we need a BG.</blo=
ckquote><div><br></div><div>Except that when I mentioned this same thing on=
Facebook, Qov said something along the lines of "It's good for th=
em to get multiple answers, then they know it's not being made up"=
so there appears to be counter arguments to this part of the BG paradigm. =
I also think that multiple different descriptions of the same thing is very=
helpful for a student, as it gives them multiple view-points to look from.=
We also have enough people that each one of the four beginners that have r=
ecently raised their hands could get their own, personal, BG. Why dump all =
the work on one person? If the goal is to help people learn, then giving th=
em one-on-one service seems like it would be them most efficient system.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;b=
order-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>People just don't use mailing lists the way they used to<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
That's true, it's almost an oldfashioned way of communication, many=
prefer facebook which they can use o=C2=A0 their phone, instead of an emai=
l account you need to log in or use a special software on your computer.<br=
></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Here's what a new student looking to =
learn Klingon said about mailing lists:=C2=A0"Wow, a mailing list - ma=
kes me feel like using Windows 95 or =C2=A0something!"</div><div><br><=
/div><div>Also we just had someone ask for the Facebook group as it would s=
eem they prefer that format.</div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;borde=
r-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Nevertheless, it still has more advanteages than Facebook, eespecially arch=
iving and searching treads.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Facebook groups=
have both archiving and searching. They do keyword searching just like we =
do on the KLI site.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1=
px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:=
1ex"><span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-st=
yle:solid;padding-left:1ex">Facebook group has over 900 members and adds mo=
re weekly).<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
Although many people join groups only because "Hey look, I'm in a =
group".</blockquote><div><br></div><div>That argument was true for thi=
s list for many many many years. Just look through the archives for all the=
spam. Also look through it for all the "How do I get off this list?&q=
uot; messages from people not reading the intro message. We also had to dea=
l with people subscribing others to the list. At least with Facebook you ca=
n see every person that is joining and they have to be approved, and spam i=
s quick and easy to deal with. In fact, being the BG might be easier on Fac=
ebook, since they could send a personalized private message to each person =
as they join.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;bo=
rder-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">=
<span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:s=
olid;padding-left:1ex">While the BG role has been very important in the pas=
t, perhaps we should<br>
look at other ways to use the list in lieu of new students.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
I still think that it's good to have somebody "in charge", so=
that newbies know where the teacher is. Just somebody who is "always =
around", someone to trust.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I have no i=
ssue with someone being in charge. In fact, I've been looking for someo=
ne to take on the running on this email list for over a year (with no luck,=
so I've been doing that too), although by "in charge" you re=
ally mean "keeping an eye on the messages and responding to certain th=
ings". Technically this list could disappear tomorrow and there's =
nothing any of us could do about it.</div><div><br></div><div>qurgh</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div></div></div></div></div></div><span>
_______________________________________________<br>Tlhingan-hol mailing lis=
t<br><a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">Tlhingan-hol=
@kli.org</a><br><a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-ho=
l" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><=
br></span></div></blockquote></div><br></div><br>__________________________=
_____________________<br>
Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">Tlhingan-hol@kli.=
org</a><br>
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rrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</=
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">Tlhingan-hol@kli.=
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</div><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>=
<span>Tlhingan-hol mailing list</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-=
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