[102139] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qa'vam?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Tue Nov 10 09:17:00 2015
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 14:16:50 +0000
In-Reply-To: <1447133804395.52695@kth.se>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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{bI'reS} also shows up as part of a longer time stamp in the "Message to Kr=
onos" (in re the opera {'u'}):
poH tuj bI'reS nungbogh wa' jaj qeylIS DIS chorghvatlh loSmaH jav qaStaHvIS=
.
In the days that follow [sic] the summer solstice in the Year of Kahless 84=
6.
('U'-MTK)
From: Felix Malmenbeck [mailto:felixm@kth.se]
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 11:37 PM
> My first instinct says no, but then it makes me think of those times
> where I've seen {bI'reS} used as a time stamp roughly equivalent to
> "at first", and though we have no canon for it [...]
We do, actually, from paq'batlh (paq'raD, Canto 18):
bI'reS qeylIS vaq molor
(Don't have the English translation handy, but it's something like "At firs=
t, Molor taunts Kahless.")
It is worth noting, however, that paq'batlh is poetic by nature.
It is a pet theory of mine that bI'reS is actually an old word for "beginni=
ng", which survives in modern (that is, future) tlhIngan Hol through opera.
However, that is speculation upon speculation, wrapped in speculation (made=
from 100% organic speculation).
________________________________
From: Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com<mailto:qeslagh@hotmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 06:02
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org<mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qa'vam?
ghItlhpu' naHQun, jatlh:
> How would y'all use {qa'vam}?
> Can I use it as a time stamp?
Ooo. That's a fascinating question. My first instinct says no, but then it =
makes me think of those times where I've seen {bI'reS} used as a time stamp=
roughly equivalent to "at first", and though we have no canon for it, I do=
like that usage. Similarly, if {qa'vam} appears in the right place syntact=
ically, I guess there's no reason it couldn't be interpreted as "in the beg=
inning" (in the biblical sense) or "at the birth of the universe". I don't =
know how many contexts you could use it in - it's a pretty narrow meaning -=
but by the same token, {qaStaHvIS qa'vam} doesn't sound quite right to me =
either.
I suppose it depends how long you want to draw your bow. It's questionable =
but interesting.
QeS 'utlh
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">{bI’reS} also shows up as part of=
a longer time stamp in the “Message to Kronos” (in re the oper=
a {‘u’}):<br>
<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000"=
>poH tuj bI'reS nungbogh wa' jaj qeylIS DIS chorghvatlh loSmaH jav qaStaHvI=
S</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";color:#C0000=
0">.</span><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
In the days that follow [<i>sic</i>] the summer solstice in the Year of Kah=
less 846.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
('U'-MTK)</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial&quo=
t;,sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
;Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Felix Malmenbeck [mailto:felix=
m@kth.se]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 09, 2015 11:37 PM<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">&=
gt; My first instinct says no, but then it makes me think of those times<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">&=
gt; where I've seen {bI'reS} used as a time stamp roughly equivalent to<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">&=
gt; "at first", and though we have no canon for it [...]<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">W=
e do, actually, from paq'batlh (paq'raD, Canto 18):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">b=
I'reS qeylIS vaq molor<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">(=
Don't have the English translation handy, but it's something like "At =
first, Molor taunts Kahless.")<br>
<br>
It is worth noting, however, that paq'batlh is poetic by nature.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">I=
t is a pet theory of mine that bI'reS is actually an old word for "beg=
inning", which survives in modern (that is, future) tlhIngan Hol throu=
gh opera.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">H=
owever, that is speculation upon speculation, wrapped in speculation (made =
from 100% organic speculation).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
;Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> Rohan =
Fenwick <<a href=3D"mailto:qeslagh@hotmail.com">qeslagh@hotmail.com</a>&=
gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 10, 2015 06:02<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org">tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a>=
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qa'vam?</span><span style=3D"font-family=
:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#212121">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:#212121">ghItlhpu' naHQun, jatlh:<br>
> How would y'all use {qa'vam}? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:#212121">> Can I use it as a time stamp?<br>
<br>
Ooo. That's a fascinating question. My first instinct says no, but then it =
makes me think of those times where I've seen {bI'reS} used as a time stamp=
roughly equivalent to "at first", and though we have no canon fo=
r it, I do like that usage. Similarly, if
{qa'vam} appears in the right place syntactically, I guess there's no reas=
on it couldn't be interpreted as "in the beginning" (in the bibli=
cal sense) or "at the birth of the universe". I don't know how ma=
ny contexts you could use it in - it's a pretty narrow
meaning - but by the same token, {qaStaHvIS qa'vam} doesn't sound quite ri=
ght to me either.<br>
<br>
I suppose it depends how long you want to draw your bow. It's questionable =
but interesting.<br>
<br>
QeS 'utlh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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