[102116] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Beginner's Grammarian: The hunt is on
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (qurgh lungqIj)
Mon Nov 9 21:57:37 2015
In-Reply-To: <BAY179-W1529B3917293BCFE006240AA140@phx.gbl>
From: qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 21:56:51 -0500
To: Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
Cc: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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One of the reason the old BG line was broken, was that there wasn't enough
traffic on the list to warrant a new BG. While the recent uptick in
activity due to qunnoQ and the new words has been great, is it really
enough to warrant a new BG? The list only has 308 members, with only 170 of
them getting it on a daily basis (the rest are digest or turned off). Back
in the mid-90s to the mid-00s we had a lot of traffic on this list.
People just don't use mailing lists the way they used to (the KLI's
Facebook group has over 900 members and adds more weekly). Being the BG is
supposed to be a challenge involving a year or so of answering questions
from multiple new students. We just don't have the throughput to make it
that way anymore.
Perhaps we can do something different. Instead of having the intermediate
speakers use the new students to improve their understanding, we could have
the advance speakers/Grammarians help pull the intermediate speakers up.
I've heard many people speak of how useful it was to be "forced" to
translate from Klingon into English by other speakers, so maybe something
along the lines of having each intermediate speaker be "assigned" to an
advanced speaker. Whenever that advanced speaker posts something all in
tlhIngan Hol, with a specific tag (ala KLBC... KLAS - KL Advanced
Speakers??), the assigned speaker has to post a translation of what was
said to the list. No one would be allowed to comment on the post until the
translation was sent, and then only the OP could comment on the translation
itself.
This would have a bunch of benefits, from increasing the list traffic, to
helping advanced speakers flex their muscles and increasing the number of
fluent speakers.
While the BG role has been very important in the past, perhaps we should
look at other ways to use the list in lieu of new students.
qurgh
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 8:07 PM, Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com> wrote:
> tetlh jeSwI'pu', Savan.
>
> Further to a lot of discussion on the list recently about Beginner's
> Grammarians and the absence of same, I've been starting to get the ball
> rolling over the last few days on a process for finding and investing a new
> BG. I don't hold any exceptional authority apart from my own history as a
> BG emeritus, but I do view the role of BG very passionately and it's
> because of that that I'm taking it on myself to organise The Great BG Hunt
> of 2015 (as it were).
>
> Having sought advice from Holtej, I've decided to take this process on
> formally, and with advice from other long-time Klingonists, I'm compiling a
> list of potential candidates that I'll be emailing later today. That list
> almost certainly won't be exhaustive, though, and anyone who thinks they
> have the Klingon chops to take the role is also more than welcome to throw
> their hat into the ring. To let prospective BGs know what's involved in the
> role, I'm attaching a brief description of the KLBC forum tag and a more
> detailed description of the BG's role on the mailing list.
>
> The role of the Beginner's Grammarian (BG) and the "Klingon Language
> Beginner's Conversation" (KLBC) tag
> ==============
> The Klingon Language Beginner's Conversation (KLBC) was formed in February
> of 1994 as a forum for beginners on the tlhIngan-Hol mailing list to
> practise using Klingon, without having the conversations become too complex
> for beginners to follow or sparking off arcane discussions or arguments
> about Klingon grammar. It was felt that it would be overwhelming for a
> beginner to have their question answered a dozen times by a horde of
> well-intentioned veterans. So one noble soul was chosen to have the right
> of first strike, as it were: this person is the Beginner's Grammarian (BG
> for short). Posts to the KLBC are identified as such with the letters
> "KLBC" at the beginning of the message's subject line. Anyone is welcome to
> respond to the content (in Klingon) of a KLBC post, but only the BG is
> allowed to respond to and advise on grammatical content (usually in
> English). Once the BG has responded, then others may comment on grammar as
> well.
>
> The Beginner's Grammarian (BG) has traditionally been a promising
> intermediate-level Klingonist, in the past usually selected and trained by
> their predecessor. If a prospective BG has any formal qualifications, they
> should ideally have passed a Level 1 (bronze) or Level 2 (silver)
> certification, though formal qualifications are by no means necessary and a
> level of practical ability in the language is the only important factor.
> The role of the BG is to respond to any posts tagged "KLBC", or any posts
> that are obviously from a complete newcomer. As such, the BG is expected to
> be quite closely involved with traffic on the list (i.e. on a daily or
> near-daily basis) for the term of their service, and should keep an eye out
> for any new faces or questions that would be typical of beginning Klingon
> students. Originally, the role was planned to rotate every six months; in
> practice a term of approximately twelve months (one year) has become the
> norm, though this is not at all fixed and may be varied as necessary. Also,
> the tlhIngan-Hol mailing list is an official project of the KLI, and as
> such, the BG is expected to behave in a professional and mature manner at
> all times.
> ==============
>
> And that's it. The role can be quite involved at times, particularly when
> traffic from beginners is high, but it's not at all onerous, particularly
> in these days when much of the non-TKD/KGT Klingon canon is available
> online (such as the older, but immensely valuable, MSN postings). The way I
> view it is that the BG role is almost like a Klingon-language internship of
> sorts. As BG you learn as much as, if not more than, you teach and it will
> help to bring you a new level of familiarity with the language that will
> serve you well if you aim to reach for Level 3 (gold) certification in the
> KLCP. (To put it in perspective, I've heard estimates that the Level 3
> certification has been achieved by about 20 people in the history of the
> KLCP. Of those, the list Grammarians - Krankor, Seqram, and the ex-BGs -
> account for at least 10, perhaps more.) Plus it's good fun, and many of the
> ex-BGs are still active on the list, so there are plenty of people around
> to offer advice if the new BG should need it.
>
> So in short, watch this space. I'll be reaching out over the course of
> today to several speakers who've been suggested to me, and if there's
> anyone who's particularly interested, of course feel free to put your name
> forward as well by either emailing me privately (qeslagh@hotmail.com) or
> by posting publicly to the list.
>
> QeS 'utlh
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>One of the reason the old BG line was broken, was tha=
t there wasn't enough traffic on the list to warrant a new BG. While th=
e recent uptick in activity due to qunnoQ and the new words has been great,=
is it really enough to warrant a new BG? The list only has 308 members, wi=
th only 170 of them getting it on a daily basis (the rest are digest or tur=
ned off). Back in the mid-90s to the mid-00s we had a lot of traffic on thi=
s list.</div><div><br></div><div>People just don't use mailing lists th=
e way they used to (the KLI's Facebook group has over 900 members and a=
dds more weekly). Being the BG is supposed to be a challenge involving a ye=
ar or so of answering questions from multiple new students. We just don'=
;t have the throughput to make it that way anymore.=C2=A0</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Perhaps we can do something different. Instead of having the interm=
ediate speakers use the new students to improve their understanding, we cou=
ld have the advance speakers/Grammarians help pull the intermediate speaker=
s up. I've heard many people speak of how useful it was to be "for=
ced" to translate from Klingon into English by other speakers, so mayb=
e something along the lines of having each intermediate speaker be "as=
signed" to an advanced speaker. Whenever that advanced speaker posts s=
omething all in tlhIngan Hol, with a specific tag (ala KLBC... KLAS - KL Ad=
vanced Speakers??), the assigned speaker has to post a translation of what =
was said to the list. No one would be allowed to comment on the post until =
the translation was sent, and then only the OP could comment on the transla=
tion itself.</div><div><br></div><div>This would have a bunch of benefits, =
from increasing the list traffic, to helping advanced speakers flex their m=
uscles and increasing the number of fluent speakers.=C2=A0</div><div><br></=
div><div>While the BG role has been very important in the past, perhaps we =
should look at other ways to use the list in lieu of=C2=A0new students.=C2=
=A0</div><div><br></div><div>qurgh</div><div><div><br></div><div><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at =
8:07 PM, Rohan Fenwick <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:qeslagh@hotm=
ail.com" target=3D"_blank">qeslagh@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">
<div><div dir=3D"ltr">tetlh jeSwI'pu', Savan.<br><br>Further to a l=
ot of discussion on the list recently about Beginner's Grammarians and =
the absence of same, I've been starting to get the ball rolling over th=
e last few days on a process for finding and investing a new BG. I don'=
t hold any exceptional authority apart from my own history as a BG emeritus=
, but I do view the role of BG very passionately and it's because of th=
at that I'm taking it on myself to organise The Great BG Hunt of 2015 (=
as it were).<br><br>Having sought advice from Holtej, I've decided to t=
ake this process on formally, and with advice from other long-time Klingoni=
sts, I'm compiling a list of potential candidates that I'll be emai=
ling later today. That list almost certainly won't be exhaustive, thoug=
h, and anyone who thinks they have the Klingon chops to take the role is al=
so more than welcome to throw their hat into the ring. To let prospective B=
Gs know what's involved in the role, I'm attaching a brief descript=
ion of the KLBC forum tag and a more detailed description of the BG's r=
ole on the mailing list.<br><br>The role of the Beginner's Grammarian (=
BG) and the "Klingon Language Beginner's Conversation" (KLBC)=
tag<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>The Klingon Language =
Beginner's Conversation (KLBC) was formed in February of 1994 as a foru=
m for beginners on the tlhIngan-Hol mailing list to practise using Klingon,=
without having the conversations become too complex for beginners to follo=
w or sparking off arcane discussions or arguments about Klingon grammar. It=
was felt that it would be overwhelming for a beginner to have their questi=
on answered a dozen times by a horde of well-intentioned veterans. So one n=
oble soul was chosen to have the right of first strike, as it were: this pe=
rson is the Beginner's Grammarian (BG for short). Posts to the KLBC are=
identified as such with the letters "KLBC" at the beginning of t=
he message's subject line. Anyone is welcome to respond to the content =
(in Klingon) of a KLBC post, but only the BG is allowed to respond to and a=
dvise on grammatical content (usually in English). Once the BG has responde=
d, then others may comment on grammar as well.<br><br>The Beginner's Gr=
ammarian (BG) has traditionally been a promising intermediate-level Klingon=
ist, in the past usually selected and trained by their predecessor. If a pr=
ospective BG has any formal qualifications, they should ideally have passed=
a Level 1 (bronze) or Level 2 (silver) certification, though formal qualif=
ications are by no means necessary and a level of practical ability in the =
language is the only important factor. The role of the BG is to respond to =
any posts tagged "KLBC", or any posts that are obviously from a c=
omplete newcomer. As such, the BG is expected to be quite closely involved =
with traffic on the list (i.e. on a daily or near-daily basis) for the term=
of their service, and should keep an eye out for any new faces or question=
s that would be typical of beginning Klingon students. Originally, the role=
was planned to rotate every six months; in practice a term of approximatel=
y twelve months (one year) has become the norm, though this is not at all f=
ixed and may be varied as necessary. Also, the tlhIngan-Hol mailing list is=
an official project of the KLI, and as such, the BG is expected to behave =
in a professional and mature manner at all times.<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br><br>And that's it. The role can be quite invol=
ved at times, particularly when traffic from beginners is high, but it'=
s not at all onerous, particularly in these days when much of the non-TKD/K=
GT Klingon canon is available online (such as the older, but immensely valu=
able, MSN postings). The way I view it is that the BG role is almost like a=
Klingon-language internship of sorts. As BG you learn as much as, if not m=
ore than, you teach and it will help to bring you a new level of familiarit=
y with the language that will serve you well if you aim to reach for Level =
3 (gold) certification in the KLCP. (To put it in perspective, I've hea=
rd estimates that the Level 3 certification has been achieved by about 20 p=
eople in the history of the KLCP. Of those, the list Grammarians - Krankor,=
Seqram, and the ex-BGs - account for at least 10, perhaps more.) Plus it&#=
39;s good fun, and many of the ex-BGs are still active on the list, so ther=
e are plenty of people around to offer advice if the new BG should need it.=
<br><br>So in short, watch this space. I'll be reaching out over the co=
urse of today to several speakers who've been suggested to me, and if t=
here's anyone who's particularly interested, of course feel free to=
put your name forward as well by either emailing me privately (<a href=3D"=
mailto:qeslagh@hotmail.com" target=3D"_blank">qeslagh@hotmail.com</a>) or b=
y posting publicly to the list.<br><br>QeS 'utlh<br> </div><=
/div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</=
a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div>
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