[101931] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] povjajwIj
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rohan Fenwick)
Thu Nov 5 09:04:31 2015
From: Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 00:04:14 +1000
In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmMvGyPRW87xG=oiU4Mq=hjuY2YcN-JJha0NCbDk+xoypA@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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ghItlhpu' naHQun=2C jatlh:
> juHDaq jIchegh.
jang De'vID=2C jatlh:
> {juH vIchegh} 'e' vImaS. There's some contradiction in the canon about
> how to specify the destination of {chegh}. But this was clarified in
> this email:
> http://klingonska.org/canon/1999-07-19b-email.txt
>=20
> {juHDaq jIchegh} is ambiguous and can mean either "I return home" or
> "I return at home (I return somewhere=2C while inside my house)".
Not quite. {juHDaq jIchegh} isn't actually ambiguous=2C and means only the =
latter: "I return=2C while inside my house". For "I return home" (that is=
=2C "I return *to* the house")=2C the sentence must actually be either {juH=
vIchegh} or {juHDaq vIchegh}=2C in both instances with the pronominal pref=
ix {vI-}. With verbs of motion like {chegh} and {jaH} and {'el}=2C the pron=
ominal prefix is the important part in disambiguating the meaning (use of t=
he superfluous {-Daq} is a marked but grammatical variant in the {vIchegh} =
form).
From HolQeD 7.4 (http://klingonska.org/canon/1998-12-holqed-07-4.txt)=2C wh=
ere the syntax of verbs of motion is discussed:
----------
MO [Marc Okrand]: Here's the way {jaH} works. {jaH} can be used=2C using yo=
ur terminology=2C both transitively and intransitively. So=2C {bIQtIqDaq jI=
jaH} is "I go in the river." I'm moving along in the river=2C traveling in =
the river. You can also say {bIQtIqDaq vIjaH}...
WM [Will Martin]: You'd still use the {-Daq}?
MO: Yes. But you don't have to. That would be the way. {-Daq} or no {-Daq}.=
The prefix makes the difference in meaning. {jI-} means I'm moving along i=
n someplace. {vI-} means I'm moving along to someplace. You cannot say {bIQ=
tIq jIjaH}.
----------
Tangentially=2C this is one of only two instances =0A=
known in Klingon grammar where a pronominal prefix (presumably) governs a n=
oun marked=0A=
with a Type 5 suffix.
QeS 'utlh
=
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>ghItlhpu' naHQun=2C jatlh:<br>&g=
t=3B juHDaq jIchegh.<br><div><br>jang De'vID=2C jatlh:<br>>=3B {juH vIche=
gh} 'e' vImaS. There's some contradiction in the canon about<br>>=3B how =
to specify the destination of {chegh}. But this was clarified in<br>>=3B =
this email:<br>>=3B http://klingonska.org/canon/1999-07-19b-email.txt<br>=
>=3B <br>>=3B {juHDaq jIchegh} is ambiguous and can mean either "I retu=
rn home" or<br>>=3B "I return at home (I return somewhere=2C while inside=
my house)".<br><br>Not quite. {juHDaq jIchegh} isn't actually ambiguous=2C=
and means only the latter: "I return=2C while inside my house". For "I ret=
urn home" (that is=2C "I return *to* the house")=2C the sentence must actua=
lly be either {juH vIchegh} or {juHDaq vIchegh}=2C in both instances with t=
he pronominal prefix {vI-}. With verbs of motion like {chegh} and {jaH} and=
{'el}=2C the pronominal prefix is the important part in disambiguating the=
meaning (use of the superfluous {-Daq} is a marked but grammatical variant=
in the {vIchegh} form).<br><br>From HolQeD 7.4 (http://klingonska.org/cano=
n/1998-12-holqed-07-4.txt)=2C where the syntax of verbs of motion is discus=
sed:<br><br>----------<br>MO [Marc Okrand]: Here's the way {jaH} works. {ja=
H} can be used=2C using your terminology=2C both transitively and intransit=
ively. So=2C {bIQtIqDaq jIjaH} is "I go in the river." I'm moving along in =
the river=2C traveling in the river. You can also say {bIQtIqDaq vIjaH}...<=
br><br>WM [Will Martin]: You'd still use the {-Daq}?<br><br>MO: Yes. But yo=
u don't have to. That would be the way. {-Daq} or no {-Daq}. The prefix mak=
es the difference in meaning. {jI-} means I'm moving along in someplace. {v=
I-} means I'm moving along to someplace. You cannot say {bIQtIq jIjaH}.<br>=
----------<br><br>Tangentially=2C this is one of only two instances =0A=
known in Klingon grammar where a pronominal prefix (presumably) governs a n=
oun marked=0A=
with a Type 5 suffix.<br><br>QeS 'utlh<br></div> </div></body>
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