[101917] in tlhIngan-Hol
[Tlhingan-hol] #NaNoKlingMo
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (John R. Harness)
Wed Nov 4 14:08:27 2015
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 13:08:01 -0600
From: "John R. Harness" <cartweel@gmail.com>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
--===============4751346957643263579==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1135f304b1c22f0523bbba8a
--001a1135f304b1c22f0523bbba8a
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I am encouraging folks to do a month-long writing challenge in November,
based on National Novel Writing Month (NaNoWriMo). I'm calling it
#NaNoKlingMo.
The challenge is simple: Write 50 words a day, every day, until Dec. 1. If
you want to write more than that, go ahead; the challenge is meant to get
folks who maybe have not written much in Klingon to start doing it; and,
for folks like me, to shake the rust off.
Some folks will be posting on Facebook in the Learn Klingon group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/LearnKlingon/permalink/899909573450593/
Share however you'd like, just add #nanoklingmo
batlh je'
'arHa
On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 12:31 PM, <tlhingan-hol-request@kli.org> wrote:
> Send Tlhingan-hol mailing list submissions to
> tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> tlhingan-hol-request@kli.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> tlhingan-hol-owner@kli.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Tlhingan-hol digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix (qunnoQ HoD)
> 2. Re: Klingon gestures (was Re: New word from MO: {jIr} (excl)
> "Big deal!") (Michael Roney, Jr.)
> 3. Re: Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix (qunnoQ HoD)
> 4. Re: Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix (qurgh lungqIj)
> 5. Re: Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix (Felix Malmenbeck)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 20:11:36 +0200
> From: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
> Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix
> Message-ID:
> <CAP7F2cLr2ajx=RLXc2=
> wnYsu7uptPg6PpzS7GmOgE0abQUySRQ@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> having just finished studying the pronouns,along with the {'e'} topic
> suffix,I can't help but wonder the following..
>
> lets take these two examples,along with their given translations :
>
> puqpu' chaH qama'pu"e' The prisoners are children.
> pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH la"e' The commander is in his quarters.
>
> As i understood the {'e'} means <<that>> ; so the above translations should
> be
>
> the prisoners that are children (implying that there are prisoners too,who
> aren't children)
> the commander that is in his quarters (implying that there is another
> commander as well,who isn't in his quarters)
>
> alternatively (because i didn't quite understand,to whom the {'e'} is
> supposed to be shoved) the aforementioned translations could be modified
> as..
>
> the children that are prisoners (implying that there are children,who
> aren't prisoners)
> the quarters that have the commander within them (implying that there are
> quarters.that don't have a commander inside)
>
> I'm confused by all these alternate possibilities.. Could someone please
> enlighten me ?
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/20151104/3b952cfe/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 13:14:46 -0500
> From: "Michael Roney, Jr." <nahqun@gmail.com>
> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon gestures (was Re: New word from
> MO: {jIr} (excl) "Big deal!")
> Message-ID:
> <CAMZYS2XRyMqccmY+smvC5VCdgqpNV67GN29_wbniNs0kpBEL=
> g@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> > I found another:
> >
> > KGT 89: in the case of the naHlet yub (nut shell). Klingons typically
> gnaw (choptaH--literally, continue biting) on the nut until it cracks open,
> and then they spit out (tlhIS) the pieces of shell (occasionally at a
> nearby diner, as a gesture of sociability) before chewing and swallowing
> the rest.
>
> naH bopbogh De? ?e? vIghojnIS.
>
> ~naHQun
>
> --
> ~Michael Roney, Jr.
> Freelance Translator
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/20151104/92751371/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 20:16:20 +0200
> From: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAP7F2cLkpd-7Ea2XLrV9zGseq4OW_5t1Tkvg5ZG+98m8c8C_5A@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> just by reading these possible translations,I feel as a starship (or bird
> of prey) entangled in alternate realities..
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 8:11 PM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > having just finished studying the pronouns,along with the {'e'} topic
> > suffix,I can't help but wonder the following..
> >
> > lets take these two examples,along with their given translations :
> >
> > puqpu' chaH qama'pu"e' The prisoners are children.
> > pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH la"e' The commander is in his quarters.
> >
> > As i understood the {'e'} means <<that>> ; so the above translations
> > should be
> >
> > the prisoners that are children (implying that there are prisoners
> too,who
> > aren't children)
> > the commander that is in his quarters (implying that there is another
> > commander as well,who isn't in his quarters)
> >
> > alternatively (because i didn't quite understand,to whom the {'e'} is
> > supposed to be shoved) the aforementioned translations could be modified
> > as..
> >
> > the children that are prisoners (implying that there are children,who
> > aren't prisoners)
> > the quarters that have the commander within them (implying that there are
> > quarters.that don't have a commander inside)
> >
> > I'm confused by all these alternate possibilities.. Could someone please
> > enlighten me ?
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/20151104/029d739e/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 13:28:35 -0500
> From: qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net>
> To: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
> Cc: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix
> Message-ID:
> <
> CALPi+eSbdEk14GSBKWPqKS+Usgh6FdmUX_Y_SG1X2ib4G5fsKw@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 1:11 PM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > having just finished studying the pronouns,along with the {'e'} topic
> > suffix,I can't help but wonder the following..
> >
> > lets take these two examples,along with their given translations :
> >
>
> Think of these as being translated:
>
>
> >
> > puqpu' chaH qama'pu"e' The prisoners are children.
> >
>
> As for the prisoners, they are children.
>
>
> > pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH la"e' The commander is in his quarters.
> >
> >
> As for the commander, he is in his quarters.
>
>
>
> > As i understood the {'e'} means <<that>> ; so the above translations
> > should be
> >
> >
> That meaning would be what {-bogh} is used for. {-'e'} means more "as for
> X", or "considering X". {-'e'} marks the topic of the sentence
>
>
>
> > the prisoners that are children (implying that there are prisoners
> too,who
> > aren't children)
> > the commander that is in his quarters (implying that there is another
> > commander as well,who isn't in his quarters)
> >
>
> These translations require {-bogh}
>
> puqpu' chaHbogh qama'pu''e' - the prisoners that are children
> pa'DajDaq ghaHtaHbogh la''e' - the commander that is in his quarters.
>
> qurgh
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/20151104/b218702b/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 18:29:10 +0000
> From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
> To: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>, tlhIngan Hol mailing list
> <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix
> Message-ID: <1446661753217.85881@kth.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I believe you've confused the function of -'e' with the function of -bogh,
> possibly because the two often occur together.
>
>
> -'e' marks a noun as the topic of a phrase, and is required for the
> subject of {ghaH}, {chaH}, {'oH} and {bIH}.
>
>
> When you say {puqpu''e' qIp yaS.}, you're saying "The officer(s) hit the
> CHILDREN.", with emphasis on the children.
>
>
> When you say {puqpu' qIp yaS'e'.}, you're saying "The OFFICER(S) hit the
> children.", with emphasis on the officer(s).
>
>
> When using a sentence with -bogh (relative suffix; functions as "who",
> "which" and "that" in the sense that you're describing) and both a subject
> and an object, -'e' is sometimes used to distinguish which is being
> referred to.
>
>
> {voDleH luchotta'bogh nuvpu''e' vIlegh.}
>
> = "I saw the people (nuvpu''e') who murdered the Emperor (voDleH)."
>
>
> {voDleH'e' luchotta'bogh nuvpu' vIlegh.}
>
> = "I saw the emperor (voDleH'e') who was murdered by the people (nuvpu')."
>
>
> Sometimes this isn't necessary, though:
>
>
> {voDleH luchotta'bogh nuvpu' wIlegh.}
>
> = "We saw the emperor who was murdered by the people."
>
> (wI- specifies a singular object, and nuvpu' is plural, so it must be
> referring to the emperor, not the people)
>
>
> {voDleH luchotta'bogh nuvpu' DIlegh.}
>
> = "I saw the people who murdered the Emperor."
>
> (Same reasoning as above, except DI- specifies a plural object)
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 19:11
> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
> Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix
>
> having just finished studying the pronouns,along with the {'e'} topic
> suffix,I can't help but wonder the following..
>
> lets take these two examples,along with their given translations :
>
> puqpu' chaH qama'pu"e' The prisoners are children.
> pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH la"e' The commander is in his quarters.
>
> As i understood the {'e'} means <<that>> ; so the above translations
> should be
>
> the prisoners that are children (implying that there are prisoners too,who
> aren't children)
> the commander that is in his quarters (implying that there is another
> commander as well,who isn't in his quarters)
>
> alternatively (because i didn't quite understand,to whom the {'e'} is
> supposed to be shoved) the aforementioned translations could be modified
> as..
>
> the children that are prisoners (implying that there are children,who
> aren't prisoners)
> the quarters that have the commander within them (implying that there are
> quarters.that don't have a commander inside)
>
> I'm confused by all these alternate possibilities.. Could someone please
> enlighten me ?
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/20151104/e8a98da6/attachment.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Tlhingan-hol Digest, Vol 51, Issue 30
> ********************************************
>
--001a1135f304b1c22f0523bbba8a
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">I am encouraging folks to do a month-long writing challeng=
e in November, based on National Novel Writing Month (NaNoWriMo). I'm c=
alling it #NaNoKlingMo.<div><br></div><div>The challenge is simple: Write 5=
0 words a day, every day, until Dec. 1. If you want to write more than that=
, go ahead; the challenge is meant to get folks who maybe have not written =
much in Klingon to start doing it; and, for folks like me, to shake the rus=
t off.</div><div><br></div><div>Some folks will be posting on Facebook in t=
he Learn Klingon group:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.facebook.com/groups/Lea=
rnKlingon/permalink/899909573450593/">https://www.facebook.com/groups/Learn=
Klingon/permalink/899909573450593/</a><br><br>Share however you'd like,=
just add #nanoklingmo</div><div><br></div><div>batlh je'</div><div>=
9;arHa<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"g=
mail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div></div></d=
iv></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 12:31 PM, <span dir=
=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol-request@kli.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">tlhingan-hol-request@kli.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;bo=
rder-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">=
Send Tlhingan-hol mailing list submissions to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org">tlhinga=
n-hol@kli.org</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo=
/tlhingan-hol" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mai=
lman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol-request@kli.org"=
>tlhingan-hol-request@kli.org</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol-owner@kli.org">t=
lhingan-hol-owner@kli.org</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Tlhingan-hol digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A01. Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix (qunnoQ HoD)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A02. Re: Klingon gestures (was Re: New word from MO: {jIr} (excl=
)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Big deal!") (Michael Roney, Jr.)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A03. Re: Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix (qunnoQ HoD)<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A04. Re: Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix (qurgh lungqI=
j)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A05. Re: Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix (Felix Malmen=
beck)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 20:11:36 +0200<br>
From: qunnoQ HoD <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com">mihkoun@gmail.com=
</a>><br>
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <<a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org">t=
lhingan-hol@kli.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix<br>
Message-ID:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <CAP7F2cLr2ajx=3DRLXc2=3D<a href=3D"mailto:w=
nYsu7uptPg6PpzS7GmOgE0abQUySRQ@mail.gmail.com">wnYsu7uptPg6PpzS7GmOgE0abQUy=
SRQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"<br>
<br>
having just finished studying the pronouns,along with the {'e'} top=
ic<br>
suffix,I can't help but wonder the following..<br>
<br>
lets take these two examples,along with their given translations :<br>
<br>
puqpu' chaH qama'pu"e' The prisoners are children.<br>
pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH la"e' The commander is in his quarters.<br>
<br>
As i understood the {'e'} means <<that>> ; so the above=
translations should<br>
be<br>
<br>
the prisoners that are children (implying that there are prisoners too,who<=
br>
aren't children)<br>
the commander that is in his quarters (implying that there is another<br>
commander as well,who isn't in his quarters)<br>
<br>
alternatively (because i didn't quite understand,to whom the {'e=
9;} is<br>
supposed to be shoved) the aforementioned translations could be modified<br=
>
as..<br>
<br>
the children that are prisoners (implying that there are children,who<br>
aren't prisoners)<br>
the quarters that have the commander within them (implying that there are<b=
r>
quarters.that don't have a commander inside)<br>
<br>
I'm confused by all these alternate possibilities.. Could someone pleas=
e<br>
enlighten me ?<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/=
20151104/3b952cfe/attachment-0001.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">http://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/20151104/3b952cfe/=
attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 13:14:46 -0500<br>
From: "Michael Roney, Jr." <<a href=3D"mailto:nahqun@gmail.com=
">nahqun@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <<a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@stodi.digi=
talkingdom.org">tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon gestures (was Re: New word from<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 MO: {jIr} (excl) "Big deal!")<br>
Message-ID:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <CAMZYS2XRyMqccmY+smvC5VCdgqpNV67GN29_wbniNs=
0kpBEL=3D<a href=3D"mailto:g@mail.gmail.com">g@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"<br>
<br>
On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Steven Boozer <<a href=3D"mailto:sbooze=
r@uchicago.edu">sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I found another:<br>
><br>
> KGT 89:=C2=A0 in the case of the naHlet yub (nut shell). Klingons typi=
cally<br>
gnaw (choptaH--literally, continue biting) on the nut until it cracks open,=
<br>
and then they spit out (tlhIS) the pieces of shell (occasionally at a<br>
nearby diner, as a gesture of sociability) before chewing and swallowing<br=
>
the rest.<br>
<br>
naH bopbogh De? ?e? vIghojnIS.<br>
<br>
~naHQun<br>
<br>
--<br>
~Michael Roney, Jr.<br>
Freelance Translator<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/=
20151104/92751371/attachment-0001.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">http://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/20151104/92751371/=
attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 20:16:20 +0200<br>
From: qunnoQ HoD <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com">mihkoun@gmail.com=
</a>><br>
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <<a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org">t=
lhingan-hol@kli.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix<br>
Message-ID:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <<a href=3D"mailto:CAP7F2cLkpd-7Ea2XLrV9zGse=
q4OW_5t1Tkvg5ZG%2B98m8c8C_5A@mail.gmail.com">CAP7F2cLkpd-7Ea2XLrV9zGseq4OW_=
5t1Tkvg5ZG+98m8c8C_5A@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"<br>
<br>
just by reading these possible translations,I feel as a starship (or bird<b=
r>
of prey) entangled in alternate realities..<br>
<br>
On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 8:11 PM, qunnoQ HoD <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gm=
ail.com">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> having just finished studying the pronouns,along with the {'e'=
} topic<br>
> suffix,I can't help but wonder the following..<br>
><br>
> lets take these two examples,along with their given translations :<br>
><br>
> puqpu' chaH qama'pu"e' The prisoners are children.<br=
>
> pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH la"e' The commander is in his quarters.=
<br>
><br>
> As i understood the {'e'} means <<that>> ; so the =
above translations<br>
> should be<br>
><br>
> the prisoners that are children (implying that there are prisoners too=
,who<br>
> aren't children)<br>
> the commander that is in his quarters (implying that there is another<=
br>
> commander as well,who isn't in his quarters)<br>
><br>
> alternatively (because i didn't quite understand,to whom the {'=
;e'} is<br>
> supposed to be shoved) the aforementioned translations could be modifi=
ed<br>
> as..<br>
><br>
> the children that are prisoners (implying that there are children,who<=
br>
> aren't prisoners)<br>
> the quarters that have the commander within them (implying that there =
are<br>
> quarters.that don't have a commander inside)<br>
><br>
> I'm confused by all these alternate possibilities.. Could someone =
please<br>
> enlighten me ?<br>
><br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/=
20151104/029d739e/attachment-0001.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">http://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/20151104/029d739e/=
attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 13:28:35 -0500<br>
From: qurgh lungqIj <<a href=3D"mailto:qurgh@wizage.net">qurgh@wizage.ne=
t</a>><br>
To: qunnoQ HoD <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com">mihkoun@gmail.com</=
a>><br>
Cc: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <<a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org">t=
lhingan-hol@kli.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix<br>
Message-ID:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <<a href=3D"mailto:CALPi%2BeSbdEk14GSBKWPqKS=
%2BUsgh6FdmUX_Y_SG1X2ib4G5fsKw@mail.gmail.com">CALPi+eSbdEk14GSBKWPqKS+Usgh=
6FdmUX_Y_SG1X2ib4G5fsKw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"<br>
<br>
On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 1:11 PM, qunnoQ HoD <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gm=
ail.com">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> having just finished studying the pronouns,along with the {'e'=
} topic<br>
> suffix,I can't help but wonder the following..<br>
><br>
> lets take these two examples,along with their given translations :<br>
><br>
<br>
Think of these as being translated:<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
> puqpu' chaH qama'pu"e' The prisoners are children.<br=
>
><br>
<br>
As for the prisoners, they are children.<br>
<br>
<br>
> pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH la"e' The commander is in his quarters.=
<br>
><br>
><br>
As for the commander, he is in his quarters.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> As i understood the {'e'} means <<that>> ; so the =
above translations<br>
> should be<br>
><br>
><br>
That meaning would be what {-bogh} is used for. {-'e'} means more &=
quot;as for<br>
X", or "considering X". {-'e'} marks the topic of th=
e sentence<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> the prisoners that are children (implying that there are prisoners too=
,who<br>
> aren't children)<br>
> the commander that is in his quarters (implying that there is another<=
br>
> commander as well,who isn't in his quarters)<br>
><br>
<br>
These translations require {-bogh}<br>
<br>
puqpu' chaHbogh qama'pu''e' - the prisoners that are ch=
ildren<br>
pa'DajDaq ghaHtaHbogh la''e' - the commander that is in his=
quarters.<br>
<br>
qurgh<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/=
20151104/b218702b/attachment-0001.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">http://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/20151104/b218702b/=
attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 18:29:10 +0000<br>
From: Felix Malmenbeck <<a href=3D"mailto:felixm@kth.se">felixm@kth.se</=
a>><br>
To: qunnoQ HoD <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com">mihkoun@gmail.com</=
a>>, tlhIngan Hol mailing list<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <<a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org">tlh=
ingan-hol@kli.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix<br>
Message-ID: <<a href=3D"mailto:1446661753217.85881@kth.se">1446661753217=
.85881@kth.se</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
I believe you've confused the function of -'e' with the functio=
n of -bogh, possibly because the two often occur together.<br>
<br>
<br>
-'e' marks a noun as the topic of a phrase, and is required for the=
subject of {ghaH}, {chaH}, {'oH} and {bIH}.<br>
<br>
<br>
When you say {puqpu''e' qIp yaS.}, you're saying "The =
officer(s) hit the CHILDREN.", with emphasis on the children.<br>
<br>
<br>
When you say {puqpu' qIp yaS'e'.}, you're saying "The =
OFFICER(S) hit the children.", with emphasis on the officer(s).<br>
<br>
<br>
When using a sentence with -bogh (relative suffix; functions as "who&q=
uot;, "which" and "that" in the sense that you're d=
escribing) and both a subject and an object, -'e' is sometimes used=
to distinguish which is being referred to.<br>
<br>
<br>
{voDleH luchotta'bogh nuvpu''e' vIlegh.}<br>
<br>
=3D "I saw the people (nuvpu''e') who murdered the Emperor=
(voDleH)."<br>
<br>
<br>
{voDleH'e' luchotta'bogh nuvpu' vIlegh.}<br>
<br>
=3D "I saw the emperor (voDleH'e') who was murdered by the peo=
ple (nuvpu')."<br>
<br>
<br>
Sometimes this isn't necessary, though:<br>
<br>
<br>
{voDleH luchotta'bogh nuvpu' wIlegh.}<br>
<br>
=3D "We saw the emperor who was murdered by the people."<br>
<br>
(wI- specifies a singular object, and nuvpu' is plural, so it must be r=
eferring to the emperor, not the people)<br>
<br>
<br>
{voDleH luchotta'bogh nuvpu' DIlegh.}<br>
<br>
=3D "I saw the people who murdered the Emperor."<br>
<br>
(Same reasoning as above, except DI- specifies a plural object)<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: qunnoQ HoD <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com">mihkoun@gmail.com=
</a>><br>
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 19:11<br>
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list<br>
Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix<br>
<br>
having just finished studying the pronouns,along with the {'e'} top=
ic suffix,I can't help but wonder the following..<br>
<br>
lets take these two examples,along with their given translations :<br>
<br>
puqpu' chaH qama'pu"e' The prisoners are children.<br>
pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH la"e' The commander is in his quarters.<br>
<br>
As i understood the {'e'} means <<that>> ; so the above=
translations should be<br>
<br>
the prisoners that are children (implying that there are prisoners too,who =
aren't children)<br>
the commander that is in his quarters (implying that there is another comma=
nder as well,who isn't in his quarters)<br>
<br>
alternatively (because i didn't quite understand,to whom the {'e=
9;} is supposed to be shoved) the aforementioned translations could be modi=
fied as..<br>
<br>
the children that are prisoners (implying that there are children,who aren&=
#39;t prisoners)<br>
the quarters that have the commander within them (implying that there are q=
uarters.that don't have a commander inside)<br>
<br>
I'm confused by all these alternate possibilities.. Could someone pleas=
e enlighten me ?<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/=
20151104/e8a98da6/attachment.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/20151104/e8a98da6/attac=
hment.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</=
a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of Tlhingan-hol Digest, Vol 51, Issue 30<br>
********************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
--001a1135f304b1c22f0523bbba8a--
--===============4751346957643263579==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
--===============4751346957643263579==--
