[101916] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (qunnoQ HoD)
Wed Nov 4 13:49:22 2015
In-Reply-To: <1446661753217.85881@kth.se>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 20:49:07 +0200
From: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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thank you all very much ! I understand now !
On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 8:29 PM, Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se> wrote:
> I believe you've confused the function of -'e' with the function of -bogh,
> possibly because the two often occur together.
>
>
> -'e' marks a noun as the topic of a phrase, and is required for the
> subject of {ghaH}, {chaH}, {'oH} and {bIH}.
>
>
> When you say {puqpu''e' qIp yaS.}, you're saying "The officer(s) hit the
> CHILDREN.", with emphasis on the children.
>
>
> When you say {puqpu' qIp yaS'e'.}, you're saying "The OFFICER(S) hit the
> children.", with emphasis on the officer(s).
>
>
> When using a sentence with -bogh (relative suffix; functions as "who",
> "which" and "that" in the sense that you're describing) and both a subject
> and an object, -'e' is sometimes used to distinguish which is being
> referred to.
>
>
> {voDleH luchotta'bogh nuvpu''e' vIlegh.}
>
> = "I saw the people (nuvpu''e') who murdered the Emperor (voDleH)."
>
>
> {voDleH'e' luchotta'bogh nuvpu' vIlegh.}
>
> = "I saw the emperor (voDleH'e') who was murdered by the people (nuvpu')."
>
>
> Sometimes this isn't necessary, though:
>
>
> {voDleH luchotta'bogh nuvpu' wIlegh.}
>
> = "We saw the emperor who was murdered by the people."
>
> (wI- specifies a singular object, and nuvpu' is plural, so it must be
> referring to the emperor, not the people)
>
>
> {voDleH luchotta'bogh nuvpu' DIlegh.}
>
> = "I saw the people who murdered the Emperor."
>
> (Same reasoning as above, except DI- specifies a plural object)
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2015 19:11
> *To:* tlhIngan Hol mailing list
> *Subject:* [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix
>
> having just finished studying the pronouns,along with the {'e'} topic
> suffix,I can't help but wonder the following..
>
> lets take these two examples,along with their given translations :
>
> puqpu' chaH qama'pu"e' The prisoners are children.
> pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH la"e' The commander is in his quarters.
>
> As i understood the {'e'} means <<that>> ; so the above translations
> should be
>
> the prisoners that are children (implying that there are prisoners too,who
> aren't children)
> the commander that is in his quarters (implying that there is another
> commander as well,who isn't in his quarters)
>
> alternatively (because i didn't quite understand,to whom the {'e'} is
> supposed to be shoved) the aforementioned translations could be modified
> as..
>
> the children that are prisoners (implying that there are children,who
> aren't prisoners)
> the quarters that have the commander within them (implying that there are
> quarters.that don't have a commander inside)
>
> I'm confused by all these alternate possibilities.. Could someone please
> enlighten me ?
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">thank you all very much ! I understand now !<br></div><div=
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 a=
t 8:29 PM, Felix Malmenbeck <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:felixm@=
kth.se" target=3D"_blank">felixm@kth.se</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#ff=
ffff;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<p>I believe you've confused the function of -'e' with the func=
tion of -bogh, possibly because the two often occur together.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>-'e' marks a noun as the topic of a phrase, and is required for =
the subject of {ghaH}, {chaH}, {'oH} and {bIH}.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>When you say {puqpu''e' qIp yaS.}, you're saying "T=
he officer(s) hit the CHILDREN.", with emphasis on the children.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>When you say {puqpu' qIp yaS'e'.}, you're saying "T=
he OFFICER(S) hit the children.", with emphasis on the officer(s).</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>When using a sentence with -bogh (relative suffix; functions as "wh=
o", "which" and "that" in the sense that you'r=
e describing) and both a subject and an object, -'e' is sometimes u=
sed to distinguish which is being referred to.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>{voDleH luchotta'bogh nuvpu''e' vIlegh.}</p>
<p>=3D "I saw the people (nuvpu''e') who murdered the Empe=
ror (voDleH)."<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>{voDleH'e' luchotta'bogh nuvpu' vIlegh.}</p>
<p>=3D "I saw the emperor (voDleH'e') who was murdered by the =
people (nuvpu')."</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Sometimes this isn't necessary, though:</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>{voDleH luchotta'bogh nuvpu' wIlegh.}</p>
<p>=3D "We saw the emperor who was murdered by the people."</p>
<p>(wI- specifies a singular object, and nuvpu' is plural, so it must b=
e referring to the emperor, not the people)</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>{voDleH luchotta'bogh nuvpu' DIlegh.}<br>
</p>
<p>=3D "I saw the people who murdered the Emperor."</p>
<p>(Same reasoning as above, except DI- specifies a plural object) <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)">
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif=
" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> qunnoQ HoD <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 4, 2015 19:11<br>
<b>To:</b> tlhIngan Hol mailing list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the {'e'} topic suffix</f=
ont>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>having just finished studying the pronouns,along with the {'e'=
} topic suffix,I can't help but wonder the following..<br>
<br>
</div>
lets take these two examples,along with their given translations :<br>
<br>
puqpu' chaH qama'pu"e' The prisoners are children.<br>
pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH la"e' The commander is in his quarters.<br>
<br>
</div>
As i understood the {'e'} means <<that>> ; so the above=
translations should be <br>
<br>
</div>
the prisoners that are children (implying that there are prisoners too,who =
aren't children)<br>
</div>
the commander that is in his quarters (implying that there is another comma=
nder as well,who isn't in his quarters)<br>
<br>
</div>
alternatively (because i didn't quite understand,to whom the {'e=
9;} is supposed to be shoved) the aforementioned translations could be modi=
fied as..<br>
<br>
</div>
the children that are prisoners (implying that there are children,who aren&=
#39;t prisoners)<br>
</div>
the quarters that have the commander within them (implying that there are q=
uarters.that don't have a commander inside)<br>
<br>
</div>
I'm confused by all these alternate possibilities.. Could someone pleas=
e enlighten me ?<br>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
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