[101861] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Multiple Adverbials (was Re: Piraha)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (qunnoQ HoD)
Tue Nov 3 09:54:12 2015
In-Reply-To: <DM3PR16MB0700134A7F2DFA3A6A0D38DAA42B0@DM3PR16MB0700.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:53:57 +0200
From: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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> Dayaj'a'?
yes I do ! thank you.
On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 3:48 PM, David Holt <kenjutsuka@live.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure exactly which situation you are talking about, but remember =
that the plural suffices are completely optional. There are times when they=
help with clarity, but {vagh rep} is clearly plural and so the {-mey} is n=
ot required. It is very handy particularly for rhythmic poetry and songs wh=
ere some flexibility in number of syllable and rhyming is very helpful.
>
> janSIy
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> From: "qunnoQ HoD" <mihkoun@gmail.com>
> Sent: November 3, 2015 7:12 AM
> To: "tlhIngan Hol mailing list" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Multiple Adverbials (was Re: Piraha)
>
>
>
> this may be like an tiny/insignificant volkswagen beetle,trying to take
> part at a ferrari/lamborghini exhibition, but still I would like to ask w=
hy
> we said
> {vagh rep ret} instead of {vagh repmey ret}..
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 12:33 AM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
>
>> On 11/2/2015 3:29 PM, Lieven wrote:
>>
>>> As far as I know, and you certainly agree, there are different kinds of
>>> adverbials: Some of them tell WHEN something happens, some tell HOW
>>> something happens.
>>>
>>> I believe that Okrand did not think of classifying them like that - to
>>> keep TKD short - so it's still possible that these must have some kind
>>> of order (this need to be verified and proven).
>>>
>>> My theory is that adverbs of the same type cannot occur on the same tim=
e:
>>> {DaH tugh maSop} makes no sense
>>> {DaH nom maSop} does make sense
>>>
>>
>> What you're describing is a semantic difference, and there may or may no=
t
>> be merit to it. TKD, however, describes only the syntactic function of
>> certain types of {chuvmey}.
>>
>> The question boils down to: can you put multiple words in front of the
>> OVS sentence that are not nouns or verbs? Answer: yes, if we believe the
>> {paq'batlh} is not taking artistic license.
>>
>> Are we restricted as to what those words mean? That's a question of
>> semantics. There are certainly combinations that don't make sense, but y=
ou
>> can't outright declare them ungrammatical. Colorless green ideas sleep
>> furiously, and all that.
>>
>> --
>> SuStel
>> http://www.trimboli.name/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>> Dayaj'a'?<br><br><br></div><div>yes I do=
! thank you.<br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote">On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 3:48 PM, David Holt <span dir=3D"ltr">&l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:kenjutsuka@live.com" target=3D"_blank">kenjutsuka@live.=
com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<pre style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;colo=
r:black">I'm not sure exactly which situation you are talking about, bu=
t remember that the plural suffices are completely optional. There are time=
s when they help with clarity, but {vagh rep} is clearly plural and so the =
{-mey} is not required. It is very handy particularly for rhythmic poetry a=
nd songs where some flexibility in number of syllable and rhyming is very h=
elpful.
janSIy
--- Original Message ---
From: "qunnoQ HoD" <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>>
Sent: November 3, 2015 7:12 AM
To: "tlhIngan Hol mailing list" <<a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-ho=
l@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a>>
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Multiple Adverbials (was Re: Piraha)
</pre><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
this may be like an tiny/insignificant volkswagen beetle,trying to take par=
t at a ferrari/lamborghini exhibition, but still I would like to ask why we=
said
<br>
{vagh rep ret} instead of {vagh repmey ret}..<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 12:33 AM, SuStel <span di=
r=3D"ltr">
<<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">sustel@trimbo=
li.name</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span>On 11/2/2015 3:29 PM, Lieven wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
As far as I know, and you certainly agree, there are different kinds of<br>
adverbials: Some of them tell WHEN something happens, some tell HOW<br>
something happens.<br>
<br>
I believe that Okrand did not think of classifying them like that - to<br>
keep TKD short - so it's still possible that these must have some kind<=
br>
of order (this need to be verified and proven).<br>
<br>
My theory is that adverbs of the same type cannot occur on the same time:<b=
r>
{DaH tugh maSop} makes no sense<br>
{DaH nom maSop} does make sense<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span>What you're describing is a semantic difference, and there may o=
r may not be merit to it. TKD, however, describes only the syntactic functi=
on of certain types of {chuvmey}.<br>
<br>
The question boils down to: can you put multiple words in front of the OVS =
sentence that are not nouns or verbs? Answer: yes, if we believe the {paq&#=
39;batlh} is not taking artistic license.<br>
<br>
Are we restricted as to what those words mean? That's a question of sem=
antics. There are certainly combinations that don't make sense, but you=
can't outright declare them ungrammatical. Colorless green ideas sleep=
furiously, and all that.<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
SuStel<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.trimboli.name/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.trimboli.name/</a></font></span>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
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<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">Tlhingan-hol@kli.=
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rrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</=
a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
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rrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</=
a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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