[101854] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Multiple Adverbials (was Re: Piraha)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (David Holt)
Tue Nov 3 08:48:56 2015
From: David Holt <kenjutsuka@live.com>
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 13:48:30 +0000
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cJWgjK4podU4CH51DxNZPu=fW6msyRpfnnus44jzm6C5w@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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I'm not sure exactly which situation you are talking about, but remember th=
at the plural suffices are completely optional. There are times when they h=
elp with clarity, but {vagh rep} is clearly plural and so the {-mey} is not=
required. It is very handy particularly for rhythmic poetry and songs wher=
e some flexibility in number of syllable and rhyming is very helpful.
janSIy
--- Original Message ---
From: "qunnoQ HoD" <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Sent: November 3, 2015 7:12 AM
To: "tlhIngan Hol mailing list" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Multiple Adverbials (was Re: Piraha)
this may be like an tiny/insignificant volkswagen beetle,trying to take par=
t at a ferrari/lamborghini exhibition, but still I would like to ask why we=
said
{vagh rep ret} instead of {vagh repmey ret}..
On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 12:33 AM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name<mailto:sustel=
@trimboli.name>> wrote:
On 11/2/2015 3:29 PM, Lieven wrote:
As far as I know, and you certainly agree, there are different kinds of
adverbials: Some of them tell WHEN something happens, some tell HOW
something happens.
I believe that Okrand did not think of classifying them like that - to
keep TKD short - so it's still possible that these must have some kind
of order (this need to be verified and proven).
My theory is that adverbs of the same type cannot occur on the same time:
{DaH tugh maSop} makes no sense
{DaH nom maSop} does make sense
What you're describing is a semantic difference, and there may or may not b=
e merit to it. TKD, however, describes only the syntactic function of certa=
in types of {chuvmey}.
The question boils down to: can you put multiple words in front of the OVS =
sentence that are not nouns or verbs? Answer: yes, if we believe the {paq'b=
atlh} is not taking artistic license.
Are we restricted as to what those words mean? That's a question of semanti=
cs. There are certainly combinations that don't make sense, but you can't o=
utright declare them ungrammatical. Colorless green ideas sleep furiously, =
and all that.
--
SuStel
http://www.trimboli.name/
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<pre style=3D"word-wrap:break-word; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma; c=
olor:black">I'm not sure exactly which situation you are talking about, but=
remember that the plural suffices are completely optional. There are times=
when they help with clarity, but {vagh rep} is clearly plural and so the {=
-mey} is not required. It is very handy particularly for rhythmic poetry an=
d songs where some flexibility in number of syllable and rhyming is very he=
lpful.=0A=
=0A=
janSIy=0A=
=0A=
--- Original Message ---=0A=
=0A=
From: "qunnoQ HoD" <mihkoun@gmail.com>=0A=
Sent: November 3, 2015 7:12 AM=0A=
To: "tlhIngan Hol mailing list" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>=0A=
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Multiple Adverbials (was Re: Piraha)=0A=
=0A=
</pre>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
this may be like an tiny/insignificant volkswagen beetle,trying to take par=
t at a ferrari/lamborghini exhibition, but still I would like to ask why we=
said
<br>
{vagh rep ret} instead of {vagh repmey ret}..<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 12:33 AM, SuStel <span di=
r=3D"ltr">
<<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">sustel@trimbo=
li.name</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1=
px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<span class=3D"">On 11/2/2015 3:29 PM, Lieven wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1=
px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
As far as I know, and you certainly agree, there are different kinds of<br>
adverbials: Some of them tell WHEN something happens, some tell HOW<br>
something happens.<br>
<br>
I believe that Okrand did not think of classifying them like that - to<br>
keep TKD short - so it's still possible that these must have some kind<br>
of order (this need to be verified and proven).<br>
<br>
My theory is that adverbs of the same type cannot occur on the same time:<b=
r>
{DaH tugh maSop} makes no sense<br>
{DaH nom maSop} does make sense<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span>What you're describing is a semantic difference, and there may or ma=
y not be merit to it. TKD, however, describes only the syntactic function o=
f certain types of {chuvmey}.<br>
<br>
The question boils down to: can you put multiple words in front of the OVS =
sentence that are not nouns or verbs? Answer: yes, if we believe the {paq'b=
atlh} is not taking artistic license.<br>
<br>
Are we restricted as to what those words mean? That's a question of semanti=
cs. There are certainly combinations that don't make sense, but you can't o=
utright declare them ungrammatical. Colorless green ideas sleep furiously, =
and all that.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
SuStel<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.trimboli.name/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.trimboli.name/</a></font></span>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
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<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">Tlhingan-hol@kli.=
org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</=
a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
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