[101815] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Defiant
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (qunnoQ HoD)
Mon Nov 2 11:38:15 2015
In-Reply-To: <38A8D804-3740-4C07-97B9-9192400D06F6@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 18:37:59 +0200
From: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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> There is no =E2=80=9Cf=E2=80=9D in Klingon
I hadn't thought of that ! thanks !
On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I=E2=80=99m not a linguist. So, I=E2=80=99m faking it as an amateur in th=
e following
> message. Just because I=E2=80=99m not official, it doesn=E2=80=99t mean I=
haven=E2=80=99t been
> listening to actual linguists here and learned a few things that I=E2=80=
=99d like
> to pass on.
>
> While there is no canon way to say =E2=80=9CDefiant=E2=80=9D in Klingon, =
and your
> transliteration is reasonably good, I=E2=80=99d suggest {DI=E2=80=99vay=
=E2=80=99ent} or
> {DIvay=E2=80=99ent}. There is no =E2=80=9Cf=E2=80=9D in Klingon, and the =
{v} is often substituted
> in transliterations, and I definitely use a subtle glottal stop between t=
he
> =E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D when I say =E2=80=9CDefiant=
=E2=80=9D. The =E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D don=E2=80=99t bl=
end together as
> they do in =E2=80=9Cvia=E2=80=9D.
>
> I suspect it=E2=80=99s due to the way we shift from high (i, e) to low vo=
wels (a,
> o, u) vowels naturally, as in =E2=80=9Ctick tock=E2=80=9D but never =E2=
=80=9Ctock tick=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cnicknack=E2=80=9D
> and never =E2=80=9Cnacknick=E2=80=9D. In =E2=80=9Cvia=E2=80=9D the =E2=80=
=9Ci=E2=80=9D is pronounced as a long =E2=80=9Ce=E2=80=9D, like
> =E2=80=9Cveeeyah=E2=80=9D (high to low vowel glide), but in =E2=80=9CDefi=
ant=E2=80=9D, the =E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D is
> pronounced =E2=80=9Cah=E2=80=9D, which is lower than the schwa of the =E2=
=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D, so we break it,
> either with a glottal stop, or an inserted =E2=80=9Cy=E2=80=9D sound, and=
we=E2=80=99ve already
> used the {ay} to represent the long =E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D (=E2=80=9Ceye=E2=
=80=9D) sound=E2=80=A6
>
> So, I guess it might also be transliterated as {DIvayyent}, if you are
> really bothered by the glottal stop.
>
> There is no singular right way to transliterate. But using =E2=80=9Cf=E2=
=80=9D is not
> really okay, since Klingons don=E2=80=99t have that phoneme in their lang=
uage.
>
> So, my vote is for {DIvay=E2=80=99ent}, though several others are accepta=
ble.
>
> pItlh
> lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
>
>
>
> On Nov 2, 2015, at 10:41 AM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> since the defiant is shown in episodes where klingon/klingons appear too,=
i
> have been wondering how are we to say <<defiant>> in thlIngan.
>
> I don't know if it has a canon name,so at first I searched if there is a
> klingon verb meaning <<to defy>>,but i found none. so next I thought of h=
ow
> would one translate/describe the meaning of <<defiant>> in klingon.
>
> but I didn't get far with that thought,because this thought occured to me=
..
>
> whenever lets say an english ship arrives at a greek port,no greek
> authority would go about translating her name in greek ; it would either
> write her name in english,or write in greek her english name (the way it =
is
> pronounced).
>
> so I think that maybe the most logical thing to do,was for a klingon to
> simply say {DIfayant}
>
> is there a canon way,to say defiant ?
>
> qunnoQ HoD
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
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>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>> There is no =E2=80=9Cf=E2=80=9D in Klingon<br><b=
r></div>I hadn't thought of that ! thanks !<br></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Wil=
l Martin <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com"=
target=3D"_blank">lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>I=E2=80=
=99m not a linguist. So, I=E2=80=99m faking it as an amateur in the followi=
ng message. Just because I=E2=80=99m not official, it doesn=E2=80=99t mean =
I haven=E2=80=99t been listening to actual linguists here and learned a few=
things that I=E2=80=99d like to pass on.</div><div><br></div>While there i=
s no canon way to say =E2=80=9CDefiant=E2=80=9D in Klingon, and your transl=
iteration is reasonably good, I=E2=80=99d suggest {DI=E2=80=99vay=E2=80=99e=
nt} or {DIvay=E2=80=99ent}. There is no =E2=80=9Cf=E2=80=9D in Klingon, and=
the {v} is often substituted in transliterations, and I definitely use a s=
ubtle glottal stop between the =E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D =
when I say =E2=80=9CDefiant=E2=80=9D. The =E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9C=
a=E2=80=9D don=E2=80=99t blend together as they do in =E2=80=9Cvia=E2=80=9D=
.<div><br></div><div>I suspect it=E2=80=99s due to the way we shift from hi=
gh (i, e) to low vowels (a, o, u) vowels naturally, as in =E2=80=9Ctick toc=
k=E2=80=9D but never =E2=80=9Ctock tick=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cnicknack=E2=80=
=9D and never =E2=80=9Cnacknick=E2=80=9D. In =E2=80=9Cvia=E2=80=9D the =E2=
=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D is pronounced as a long =E2=80=9Ce=E2=80=9D, like =E2=80=
=9Cveeeyah=E2=80=9D (high to low vowel glide), but in =E2=80=9CDefiant=E2=
=80=9D, the =E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D is pronounced =E2=80=9Cah=E2=80=9D, which i=
s lower than the schwa of the =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D, so we break it, either w=
ith a glottal stop, or an inserted =E2=80=9Cy=E2=80=9D sound, and we=E2=80=
=99ve already used the {ay} to represent the long =E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D (=E2=
=80=9Ceye=E2=80=9D) sound=E2=80=A6</div><div><br></div><div>So, I guess it =
might also be transliterated as {DIvayyent}, if you are really bothered by =
the glottal stop.</div><div><br></div><div>There is no singular right way t=
o transliterate. But using =E2=80=9Cf=E2=80=9D is not really okay, since Kl=
ingons don=E2=80=99t have that phoneme in their language.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>So, my vote is for {DIvay=E2=80=99ent}, though several others are a=
cceptable.<br><div><br><div>
<span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvet=
ica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing=
:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-tra=
nsform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div>pItlh</div><div>lojmI=
t tI'wI'nuv</div><div><br></div></span><br>
</div>
<br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D"h5"><div>On Nov 2, 20=
15, at 10:41 AM, qunnoQ HoD <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br></div></div><div><div=
><div class=3D"h5"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>since the defiant is shown in episo=
des where klingon/klingons appear too,i have been wondering how are we to s=
ay <<defiant>> in thlIngan.<br><br>I don't know if it has a=
canon name,so at first I searched if there is a klingon verb meaning <&=
lt;to defy>>,but i found none. so next I thought of how would one tra=
nslate/describe the meaning of <<defiant>> in klingon.<br><br>b=
ut I didn't get far with that thought,because this thought occured to m=
e..<br><br>whenever lets say an english ship arrives at a greek port,no gre=
ek authority would go about translating her name in greek ; it would either=
write her name in english,or write in greek her english name (the way it i=
s pronounced).<br><br>so I think that maybe the most logical thing to do,wa=
s for a klingon to simply say {DIfayant}<br><br>is there a canon way,to say=
defiant ?<br><br>qunnoQ HoD<br></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>Tlhingan-hol mailing lis=
t<br><a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">Tlhingan-hol=
@kli.org</a><br><a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-ho=
l" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><=
br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><br>_____________________=
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a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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