[101802] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Piraha
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Will Martin)
Mon Nov 2 09:49:55 2015
From: Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 09:49:39 -0500
To: "tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org"
<tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAG84SOsBXn-T+QLbXudJcx=JXcAhjNkZZzuBSjL1jpcom=BcxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Thank you.
I am delighted that this issue has finally been addressed by canon =
examples. I have not seen the text to paq=E2=80=99batlh, so I was =
ignorant of this.
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
> On Nov 2, 2015, at 9:18 AM, nIqolay Q <niqolay0@gmail.com> wrote:
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> On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 8:26 AM, Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com =
<mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I=E2=80=99d love for this to be acceptable, but apparently Okrand =
has never offered us a canon example that has two adverbials and has =
never given us advice on their use. It=E2=80=99s not so much that we =
can=E2=80=99t do it as it is that we don=E2=80=99t know that we can. We =
do know that when we would have expected two adjectives applied to a =
noun, Okrand changed one of them to a relative clause, likely to avoid =
the issue, and we=E2=80=99ve seen him use multiple relative clauses in =
the example you cite below.
> >
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> When I asked about the topic of multiple adverbials a few years ago, I =
was given a few examples from the paq'batlh:
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> Felix Malmenbeck wrote on 4/23/13:
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> 1) =46rom paq'batlh, paq'raD, Canto 8, Stanza 11:
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> jatlh =E2=80=98e=E2=80=99 mevDI=E2=80=99 qeylIS, lop
> chaq tugh batlh Heghmo=E2=80=99
> =E2=80=98ej chaq tugh charghmo=E2=80=99
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> After Kahless's words, they celebrate,
> For they may soon die with honor!
> For they may soon be victorious!
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> Another example is from paq'batlh, paq'raD, Canto 17, Stanza 11:
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> reH batlh SuvtaHjaj chaH
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> Let endless battle and honor await them!
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> ...and another, in paq'batlh, paq'raD, Canto 23, Stanza 3:
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> Hay=E2=80=99chu=E2=80=99 luneHqu=E2=80=99
> vaj pe=E2=80=99vIl joqqu=E2=80=99
> cha=E2=80=99 tlhIngan tIqDu=E2=80=99
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> Both Klingon hearts beat,
> At their strongest,
> In lust for blood.
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> ...and I believe there are plenty more examples.
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> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Thank you.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I am delighted that this issue has =
finally been addressed by canon examples. I have not seen the text to =
paq=E2=80=99batlh, so I was ignorant of this.</div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class=3D"">pItlh</div><div =
class=3D"">lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></span><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Nov 2, 2015, at 9:18 AM, nIqolay Q <<a =
href=3D"mailto:niqolay0@gmail.com" class=3D"">niqolay0@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">On =
Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 8:26 AM, Will Martin <<a =
href=3D"mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=3D"">><br =
class=3D"">><br class=3D"">><br class=3D"">> I=E2=80=99d love =
for this to be acceptable, but apparently Okrand has never offered us a =
canon example that has two adverbials and has never given us advice on =
their use. It=E2=80=99s not so much that we can=E2=80=99t do it as it is =
that we don=E2=80=99t know that we can. We do know that when we would =
have expected two adjectives applied to a noun, Okrand changed one of =
them to a relative clause, likely to avoid the issue, and we=E2=80=99ve =
seen him use multiple relative clauses in the example you cite below.<br =
class=3D"">><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">When I asked about the =
topic of multiple adverbials a few years ago, I was given a few examples =
from the paq'batlh:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Felix Malmenbeck wrote =
on 4/23/13:<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div style=3D"margin-left:40px" =
class=3D"">1) =46rom paq'batlh, paq'raD, Canto 8, Stanza 11:<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">jatlh =E2=80=98e=E2=80=99 mevDI=E2=80=99 =
qeylIS, lop<br class=3D"">chaq tugh batlh Heghmo=E2=80=99<br =
class=3D"">=E2=80=98ej chaq tugh charghmo=E2=80=99<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">After Kahless's words, they celebrate,<br class=3D"">For they =
may soon die with honor!<br class=3D"">For they may soon be =
victorious!<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Another example is from =
paq'batlh, paq'raD, Canto 17, Stanza 11:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">reH =
batlh SuvtaHjaj chaH<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Let endless battle and =
honor await them!<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">...and another, in =
paq'batlh, paq'raD, Canto 23, Stanza 3:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Hay=E2=80=99chu=E2=80=99 luneHqu=E2=80=99<br class=3D"">vaj =
pe=E2=80=99vIl joqqu=E2=80=99<br class=3D"">cha=E2=80=99 tlhIngan =
tIqDu=E2=80=99<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Both Klingon hearts beat,<br =
class=3D"">At their strongest,<br class=3D"">In lust for blood.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">...and I believe there are plenty more =
examples.<br class=3D""></div></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""> </div></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol=
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br =
class=3D"">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=
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