[101798] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Significance of constructed languages
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Will Martin)
Mon Nov 2 08:47:11 2015
From: Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cKUFPLPwrA9khJ4Xt7yDOtRzdYKhx-EfRrn7ic7TdsNEw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 08:46:55 -0500
To: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Cc: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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{-ghach} turns a verb into a noun, but it is considered very strange to =
apply it to a bare verb. Okrand invented it in order to come up with the =
word {naDHa=E2=80=99ghach} =3D =E2=80=9Cdiscommendation=E2=80=9D. It =
relies on a suffix, apparently, to color the nature of the noun formed. =
So, {valtaHghach} is =E2=80=9Ccleverness=E2=80=9D, but it relates to =
ongoing, consistent cleverness, and not simply a briefly clever act. =
{valta=E2=80=99ghach} has more to do with the intentional and successful =
cleverness. {valqa=E2=80=99ghach} would relate to repeated episodes of =
cleverness, without implying that the person or people showed continuous =
cleverness between the episodes. So, with {-ghach} there are areas of =
subtlety in a Klingon term that would be awkward and wordy to explain in =
translation.
Technically, you COULD use {-ghach} on a bare verb, but you=E2=80=99d =
really only do it as a joke or some other intentionally ungrammatical =
construction, to call attention to the word in some oddly special way. =
Nobody does it in normal conversation. It ain=E2=80=99t no citified way =
to speak proper Klingon.
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
> On Nov 1, 2015, at 2:27 PM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> > {Holmey lumutlhlu'bogh} =3D "languages which are constructed".
>=20
> that is what i wanted to say ! at first I tried to write <<constructed =
languages>>,but i couldn't find the exact words. then I thought of =
saying <<languages linguists constructed>> but this went south too. so =
finally I decided to try and write <<languages which are constructed>>
>=20
> just a question on {-ghach} because I didn't quite understand its use. =
is {-ghach} only to be glued at verbs ending in suffixes as {-be'}, =
{Ha'} etc, or can I put it too on verbs such as {Hurgh} ? So as to mean =
{Hurghghach} =3D Darkness ?
>=20
> ok, the time has come to confess my sin..
>=20
> when I try to write in Klingon,I start trying to build a sentence and =
slowly I manage to get somewhere. the sentence maybe wrong, but my mind =
can process the way things ought to be. I think of the verb,then who =
does what to whom, glue the prefix, put the object first, the subject =
last etc..
>=20
> but when I try to translate from klingon to english it feels as if my =
mind is being tied into a knot. it feels as if I'm driving in reverse =
going up a mountain at night.. I'm used to sentences =
subject-verb-object,and when i try to read in the opposite order it just =
feels so weird !
>=20
> unfortunately -for the time being- i can't translate from klingon to =
english. i believe its way too premature for me unless the sentences are =
very simple.
>=20
> thank you very much for your comments !
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 8:29 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com =
<mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>> wrote:
> qunnoQ HoD:
> >> vInDa'pu' pIm. HatlhmeyDaq pIm. Hatlhmeyvo' pIm. nughmeyvo' pIm.
>=20
> De'vID:
> > mu'tlheghmey naQ bIHbe'. Dach wot'a'.
>=20
> Note also that {Hatlh} refers to the "country" in the sense of
> "countryside". The political sense of a "country" or "state" is {Sep}.
>=20
> --
> De'vID
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">{-ghach} turns a verb into a noun, but it is =
considered very strange to apply it to a bare verb. Okrand invented it =
in order to come up with the word {naDHa=E2=80=99ghach} =3D =
=E2=80=9Cdiscommendation=E2=80=9D. It relies on a suffix, apparently, to =
color the nature of the noun formed. So, {valtaHghach} is =
=E2=80=9Ccleverness=E2=80=9D, but it relates to ongoing, consistent =
cleverness, and not simply a briefly clever act. {valta=E2=80=99ghach} =
has more to do with the intentional and successful cleverness. =
{valqa=E2=80=99ghach} would relate to repeated episodes of cleverness, =
without implying that the person or people showed continuous cleverness =
between the episodes. So, with {-ghach} there are areas of subtlety in a =
Klingon term that would be awkward and wordy to explain in =
translation.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Technically, you COULD use {-ghach} on a bare verb, but =
you=E2=80=99d really only do it as a joke or some other intentionally =
ungrammatical construction, to call attention to the word in some oddly =
special way. Nobody does it in normal conversation. It ain=E2=80=99t no =
citified way to speak proper Klingon.</div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">=
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class=3D"">pItlh</div><div =
class=3D"">lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></span><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Nov 1, 2015, at 2:27 PM, qunnoQ HoD <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" class=3D"">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">> {Holmey lumutlhlu'bogh} =3D "languages which are =
constructed".<br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>that is what i wanted =
to say ! at first I tried to write <<constructed =
languages>>,but i couldn't find the exact words. then I thought of =
saying <<languages linguists constructed>> but this went =
south too. so finally I decided to try and write <<languages which =
are constructed>><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>just a =
question on {-ghach} because I didn't quite understand its use. is =
{-ghach} only to be glued at verbs ending in suffixes as {-be'}, {Ha'} =
etc, or can I put it too on verbs such as {Hurgh} ? So as to mean =
{Hurghghach} =3D Darkness ?<br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">ok, the time has come to confess my sin..<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">when I try to write in Klingon,I start trying to build a =
sentence and slowly I manage to get somewhere. the sentence maybe wrong, =
but my mind can process the way things ought to be. I think of the =
verb,then who does what to whom, glue the prefix, put the object first, =
the subject last etc..<br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">but when I try to translate from klingon to english it feels =
as if my mind is being tied into a knot. it feels as if I'm driving in =
reverse going up a mountain at night.. I'm used to sentences =
subject-verb-object,and when i try to read in the opposite order it just =
feels so weird !<br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">unfortunately -for the time being- i can't translate from =
klingon to english. i believe its way too premature for me unless the =
sentences are very simple.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">thank you very much for your comments !<br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 8:29 PM, De'vID <span =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><<a href=3D"mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com</a>></span> =
wrote:<br class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">qunnoQ HoD:<br =
class=3D"">
<span class=3D"">>> vInDa'pu' pIm. HatlhmeyDaq pIm. Hatlhmeyvo' =
pIm. nughmeyvo' pIm.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</span>De'vID:<br class=3D"">
<span class=3D"">> mu'tlheghmey naQ bIHbe'. Dach wot'a'.<br class=3D"">=
<br class=3D"">
</span>Note also that {Hatlh} refers to the "country" in the sense of<br =
class=3D"">
"countryside". The political sense of a "country" or "state" is =
{Sep}.<br class=3D"">
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888" class=3D""><br class=3D"">
--<br class=3D"">
De'vID<br class=3D"">
</font></span></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol=
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br =
class=3D"">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=
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