[101741] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] thIngan Hol yejHaD Degh qun
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?=)
Sat Oct 31 08:06:56 2015
In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmPfP7L18_fkKkv9hJW=0gr3WjFGiMVVP=PFEzzAT5OY2A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 13:06:39 +0100
From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?= <esperantist@gmail.com>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Don't worry, qunnoQ, you are still a beginner, but I found your attempt
surprisingly good, you're definitely on the right track to mastering the
warrior's tongue!
A few tips, though:
* {qaStaHvIS x} literally means "while x was/is/will be happening", and is
used for more complicated time stamps. So usually it just means "during x"
or "when x happened"
* Klingon has some compound words like HolQeD (languagescience, i.e.
linguistics), but most often when you see something attached to the end of
a word that you've identified, it is probably a suffix. When I was a
beginner, I always referred to the alphabetical list of affixes in the end
of TKD ('The Klingon Dictionary', I'm sure you know by now), that helped a
lot, and after a while I didn't need to do that anymore. :) So, where you
identified "to farm" and saw that it didn't make any sense, you should have
identified it as a suffix. De'vID already gave you the meaning.
* also always keep in mind the word order of Klingon: OVS, with anything
adverbial coming at the front and the verb always agreeing with the subject
and the object. Modifying "Adjectives" (really actually verbs) follow the
nouns, but modifying nouns (as in N N constructions) as well as numbers
precede them. Keeping that in mind immensely helps deciphering Klingon and
writing in it oneself.
* translation attempts aren't in vain, it not only helps you remember the
vocabulary, but also to see how experiences speakers use the language. You
might have come across problems that you couldn't solve, e.g. I was
perplexed about the lack of a word for "with" and "without" back in the
days when I started, and I tried to misuse suffixes for that... but then I
read some Klingon text and tried to see how it actually worked and found
out how. That was very helpful.
Not bad! Not bad at all! :)
- Andr=C3=A9
On Oct 31, 2015 10:40, "De'vID" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 31 October 2015 at 09:15, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Qo=E2=80=99. tlhIngan Hol=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99 bopbe=E2=80=99. tlhIngan=
Hol yejHaD Degh neH bop.
>> yImugh SoH =E2=80=98ej bIQaghchugh nIQaH latlhpu=E2=80=99
>> no. this does not concern the klingon language. it concerns the KLI
>> symbol. you must translate it,and if you make mistakes they will help yo=
u
>> another one (?).
>>
>
> In {nIQaH latlhpu'}, the subject of {nIQaH} is {latlhpu'}.
>
>
>> > jIjanglaH HolQeD veywIj vInuD.
>> to be able to reply i examined and farmed my HolQeD package (?!?!?!) (i
>> laughed so hard that tears came out of my eyes..)
>>
>
> {-wIj} is a suffix here, not the verb {wIj}.
>
>
>> > tera=E2=80=99 DIS wa=E2=80=99SaD Hutvatlh HutmaH jav qep=E2=80=99a=E2=
=80=99Daq Degh chu=E2=80=99 =E2=80=98ang =E2=80=98angghal.
>> earth years one thousand nine hundred nine ten (i guess 1990) at the
>> sixth qep'a' the new symbol was newly jealously revealed
>>
>
> {'angghal} is a name. It's the Klingon name of Lawrence Schoen, KLI
> director.
>
>
>> > qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 jeyDaq Degh Deq lo=E2=80=99lu=E2=80=99, vaj qaS=
taHvIS qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 much SeQ ta=E2=80=99law=E2=80=99
>> =E2=80=98angghal.
>> at that qep'a the prior symbol was defeated, so it was occuring to happe=
n
>> at the qep'a' formal presentation by many was accomplished to be jealous=
ly
>> revealed (i feel like an idiot)
>>
>
> {jey} is a noun, not the verb {jey}.
>
> Don't feel like an idiot. Nobody told you that {'angghal} is a name, and
> your attempts to parse it as a word are misleading you.
>
>
>> > chaq ngugh maHvaD Degh cha=E2=80=99bogh HumwI=E2=80=99mey lunoblu=E2=
=80=99 je.
>> perhaps at that time for us the symbol which was displayed was made
>> sticky they gave it also
>>
>
> {HumwI'} =3D sticker
>
>
>> > QonoSwIj tIQDaq Deghmey Sar lulo=E2=80=99pu=E2=80=99bogh vImuch.
>> my journal one of the various ancient symbols which they used and they
>> presented
>>
>
> {tIQ} applies to {QonoS} not to {Degh} here. The journal Qov is referring
> to is her blog.
>
> --
> De'vID
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
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<p dir=3D"ltr">Don't worry, qunnoQ, you are still a beginner, but I fou=
nd your attempt surprisingly good, you're definitely on the right track=
to mastering the warrior's tongue!</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">A few tips, though:<br>
* {qaStaHvIS x} literally means "while x was/is/will be happening"=
;, and is used for more complicated time stamps. So usually it just means &=
quot;during x" or "when x happened"</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">* Klingon has some compound words like HolQeD (languagescien=
ce, i.e. linguistics), but most often when you see something attached to th=
e end of a word that you've identified, it is probably a suffix. When I=
was a beginner, I always referred to the alphabetical list of affixes in t=
he end of TKD ('The Klingon Dictionary', I'm sure you know by n=
ow), that helped a lot, and after a while I didn't need to do that anym=
ore. :) So, where you identified "to farm" and saw that it didn&#=
39;t make any sense, you should have identified it as a suffix. De'vID =
already gave you the meaning.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">* also always keep in mind the word order of Klingon: OVS, w=
ith anything adverbial coming at the front and the verb always agreeing wit=
h the subject and the object. Modifying "Adjectives" (really actu=
ally verbs) follow the nouns, but modifying nouns (as in N N constructions)=
as well as numbers precede them. Keeping that in mind immensely helps deci=
phering Klingon and writing in it oneself.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">* translation attempts aren't in vain, it not only helps=
you remember the vocabulary, but also to see how experiences speakers use =
the language. You might have come across problems that you couldn't sol=
ve, e.g. I was perplexed about the lack of a word for "with" and =
"without"=C2=A0 back in the days when I started, and I tried to m=
isuse suffixes for that... but then I read some Klingon text and tried to s=
ee how it actually worked and found out how. That was very helpful.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Not bad! Not bad at all! :)<br>
- Andr=C3=A9</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Oct 31, 2015 10:40, "De'vID" &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com">de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com</a>>=
; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 31 O=
ctober 2015 at 09:15, qunnoQ HoD <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:mi=
hkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<=
br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><d=
iv><span><span>> <span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">Qo=E2=80=99.=C2=A0=
tlhIngan Hol=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99 bopbe=E2=80=99. tlhIngan Hol yejHaD Degh n=
eH bop. =C2=A0yImugh SoH =E2=80=98ej bIQaghchugh nIQaH latlhpu=E2=80=99<br>=
</span></span></span>no.
this does not concern the klingon language. it concerns the KLI symbol.
you must translate it,and if you make mistakes they will help you=20
another one (?).<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"></span><span style=3D"=
color:rgb(31,73,125)"> <br></span></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div=
><br></div><div>In {nIQaH latlhpu'}, the subject of {nIQaH} is {latlhpu=
'}.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">&=
gt; </font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">jIjanglaH Hol=
QeD veywIj vInuD.</font></span><br><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"></s=
pan></div></div><div>to be able to reply i examined and farmed my HolQeD pa=
ckage (?!?!?!) (i laughed so hard that tears came out of my eyes..)</div></=
div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>{-wIj} is a suffix here, not the=
verb {wIj}.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">=
> </font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">tera=E2=80=
=99 DIS wa=E2=80=99SaD Hutvatlh HutmaH</font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"> <=
font face=3D"Calibri">jav qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99Daq</font></span><span lang=
=3D"en-ca"> <font face=3D"Calibri">Degh chu=E2=80=99 =E2=80=98ang =E2=80=98=
angghal.</font></span><br></div><div>earth years one thousand nine hundred =
nine ten (i guess 1990) at the sixth qep'a' the new symbol was newl=
y jealously revealed<span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">=C2=A0 <br>=
</font></span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>{'angg=
hal} is a name. It's the Klingon name of Lawrence Schoen, KLI director.=
=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">> </=
font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"> <font face=3D"Calibri">qep=E2=80=99a=E2=
=80=99 jeyDaq Degh Deq lo=E2=80=99lu=E2=80=99</font></span><span lang=3D"en=
-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">, vaj qaStaHvIS qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 much SeQ=
ta=E2=80=99law=E2=80=99 =E2=80=98ang</font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><fo=
nt face=3D"Calibri">ghal.</font></span><br></div><div>at
that qep'a the prior symbol was defeated, so it was occuring to happen=
=20
at the qep'a' formal presentation by many was accomplished to be=20
jealously revealed<span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri"> </font></spa=
n>(i feel like an idiot)</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=
{jey} is a noun, not the verb {jey}.</div><div><br></div><div>Don't fee=
l like an idiot. Nobody told you that {'angghal} is a name, and your at=
tempts to parse it as a word are misleading you.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><span lan=
g=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">>=C2=A0</font></span><span lang=3D"en=
-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">chaq ngugh</font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"> <=
font face=3D"Calibri">maHvaD Degh cha=E2=80=99bogh</font></span><span lang=
=3D"en-ca"> <font face=3D"Calibri">Hu</font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><fo=
nt face=3D"Calibri">mwI=E2=80=99mey lunoblu=E2=80=99</font></span><span lan=
g=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri"> je.</font></span><br></div><div>perhaps=
at that time for us the symbol which was displayed was made sticky they ga=
ve it also</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>{HumwI'} =
=3D sticker</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><span><span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=
=3D"Calibri">> </font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri"=
>QonoSwIj tIQDaq Deghmey Sar lulo=E2=80=99</font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca=
"><font face=3D"Calibri">pu=E2=80=99</font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><fon=
t face=3D"Calibri">b</font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibr=
i">ogh vImuch.<br></font></span></span></span></div><div>my journal one of =
the various ancient symbols which they used and they presented</div></div><=
/div></blockquote></div><br>{tIQ} applies to {QonoS} not to {Degh} here. Th=
e journal Qov is referring to is her blog.<br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>=
-- <br><div>De'vID</div>
</div></div>
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a><br>
<br></blockquote></div>
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