[101716] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] On the history of KLI
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Will Martin)
Fri Oct 30 16:07:07 2015
From: Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 16:06:49 -0400
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <CALPi+eRW0TLHiEgfuDW8Kwdj9dMwcx=qs823DB+FEJCCdAJYyg@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
--===============4102280616964666181==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_46FFA40F-5340-46C6-A861-78A417E8560D"
--Apple-Mail=_46FFA40F-5340-46C6-A861-78A417E8560D
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=utf-8
The six people who came for the duration of qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 =
wa=E2=80=99DIch (and perhaps the other half dozen who visited it at some =
point during that week) are considered to be founding members. Yes, =
Laurence came up with the idea, and has been the president of the KLI =
since its inception, but I doubt he would consider himself to be the =
only founding member, since it=E2=80=99s not a group if it only has one =
person in it.
I=E2=80=99m a founding member. SuStel is a founding member. =
ghunchu=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99 is a founding member. Seqram is a founding =
member. Qanqor is a founding member. I think Holtej is a founding member =
(unless he joined slightly later). My memory is imperfect, and I won=E2=80=
=99t try to stretch it to include the others. They should identify =
themselves, if they still subscribe to this list. I do not wish to =
disrespect anyone else who deserves the title of founding member by my =
omission. I just don=E2=80=99t remember that well. Time is not my strong =
suit. I remember how and why. Everything else is a blur. I use computers =
to deal with who, what, when, where, which, etc. How and why, I remember =
compulsively.
Just know that Lawrence is not the only founding member of the KLI.
There have been a number of artists who have offered their craft to the =
KLI. One of them invented the KLI=E2=80=99s logo. Neither Marc Orkand =
nor Paramount was not involved in that project. Lawrence asked for =
something that suggested the trefoil that belongs to Paramount, but =
would be sufficiently different from it to avoid issues of copyright, =
and was very happy with what the artist came up with. He could name the =
artist. I can=E2=80=99t. It was done within the first decade of the KLI, =
perhaps in the latter half of that decade.
HoD Qanqor and Seqram attended the one and only Klingon camp (I think in =
Minnesota) the year before qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 wa=E2=80=99DIch =E2=80=94=
the endeavor of a competing Klingon Language organization that did not =
survive. That was intended to be an annual event, but it didn=E2=80=99t =
pan out. At the time, HoD Qanqor was the only individual in the 20th =
century on Earth who could speak the language. Seqram was jealous, since =
he could already speak over a dozen languages, most of which were either =
=E2=80=9Cdead=E2=80=9D or artificial, so at qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 =
wa=E2=80=99DIch, he, too, could speak the language and the rest of us =
gawked, and pulled out our dictionaries a lot.
By qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 cha=E2=80=99DIch several of us could haltingly =
speak the language, pulling out our dictionaries a lot. Especially once =
Qov showed up, having memorized all the words the rest of us hadn=E2=80=99=
t gotten around to learning yet. We call them =E2=80=9CQov words=E2=80=9D.=
And ghuyDo=E2=80=99 wa=E2=80=99, who also memorized the entire =
vocabulary=E2=80=A6 and the entire taH pagh taHbe=E2=80=99 monologue =
spoken so fast it was painful to attempt to parse. (For me, anyway.)
Seqram accidentally invented the word for =E2=80=9Carmpit=E2=80=9D, =
which was eventually turned into an actual canon word by Okrand, as a =
joke. Seqram had created it as an example of why we should not make up =
words, and someone missed the point and added it to their dictionary. A =
year later, the person who made the mistake claimed it was a canon word, =
though he couldn=E2=80=99t remember the source. Extensive research of =
the archives (by ghunchu=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99) revealed the origin and we =
shared it with Marc Okrand as a joke, whereupon he gleefully explained =
that it really was the word for =E2=80=9Carmpit=E2=80=9D. And poof! He =
waves his magic wand, and it=E2=80=99s an official word.
I accidentally gave an existing word a new definition because of an =
alignment error in the copy of my dictionary that I gave to Okrand, and =
he turned into canon in the word list at the end of one of his later =
books. Klingon for the Galactic Traveler, maybe? I don=E2=80=99t have =
them with me.
There are words like {yID} - =E2=80=9Cto be Jewish=E2=80=9D, which are =
NOT canon words, and continue to exist as jokes, very persistently =
explained to NOT be canon words, every time they are used.
There has never been an instance where anyone except Marc Okrand has =
invented a word and then, without Marc eventually declaring it canon, it =
became canon.
He has granted several of us a one-time privilege to ask for a word from =
Maltz. I was offered that, and instead of coming up with something, I =
just passed forward a request from someone else on this list for words =
for =E2=80=9Ctop=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cbottom=E2=80=9D, since that =
seemed like a more useful word than anything I could come up with on =
short notice. Each of the =E2=80=9CFriends of Maltz=E2=80=9D was granted =
this privilege for life-time contributions to the language.
Marc Okrand is a kind, gracious man who guards his privacy, and we are =
happy to respect that privacy as a sign of respect for the gift he gave =
us. He was hired to coach actors to dub gibberish for a movie. He came =
up with the idea of inventing an entire language. That choice on his =
part was the spark that made all of this happen.
And it is magical how far it has gone from there.
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
> On Oct 30, 2015, at 1:14 PM, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
>=20
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 12:49 PM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com =
<mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>> wrote:
> i just read this link,and unfortunately it doesn't provide direct =
answers - or any answers at all - to the aforementioned questions. thank =
you very much though !
>=20
> It seemed to answer your first question:
>=20
> how long after the creation of klingon language was the KLI formed ?
>=20
> The language (dictionary) came out in 1985 and the KLI started in =
1992, so that would be 1992-1985 =3D 7 years after
>=20
> =20
>=20
> from what i read two more questions arose.
>=20
> it mentioned an opera 'u' written and performed in klingon. where can =
i find the text of this opera ?
>=20
> The text of the opera 'u' became the text of the paq'batlh. That's the =
closest you'll be able to get right now.=20
>=20
>=20
> did okrand know any of the founding members of KLI,prior to the =
creation of the language ?
>=20
> Only Lawrence can probably answer that question as he was the only =
founding member. =20
>=20
> =20
> has any of the founding members of KLI created vocabulary and/or =
grammar,which is considered canon ?
>=20
> No. Only Okrand has created vocabulary and/or grammar that is =
considered canon. Although he may have based his ideas on other people's =
ideas/requests.
> =20
>=20
> with regards to the KLI logo/emblem. (the spiked wheel,with the three =
blades within it..)
>=20
> who designed it ?
> how long has it been the logo of KLI ?
>=20
> For as long as I can remember (20+ years?)
>=20
> =20
> has Okrand had anything to do with its creation ?
>=20
> Unlikely.
>=20
> qurgh
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
--Apple-Mail=_46FFA40F-5340-46C6-A861-78A417E8560D
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">The six people who came for the duration of =
qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 wa=E2=80=99DIch (and perhaps the other half dozen =
who visited it at some point during that week) are considered to be =
founding members. Yes, Laurence came up with the idea, and has been the =
president of the KLI since its inception, but I doubt he would consider =
himself to be the only founding member, since it=E2=80=99s not a group =
if it only has one person in it.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I=E2=80=99m a founding member. SuStel =
is a founding member. ghunchu=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99 is a founding member. =
Seqram is a founding member. Qanqor is a founding member. I think Holtej =
is a founding member (unless he joined slightly later). My memory is =
imperfect, and I won=E2=80=99t try to stretch it to include the others. =
They should identify themselves, if they still subscribe to this list. I =
do not wish to disrespect anyone else who deserves the title of founding =
member by my omission. I just don=E2=80=99t remember that well. Time is =
not my strong suit. I remember how and why. Everything else is a blur. I =
use computers to deal with who, what, when, where, which, etc. How and =
why, I remember compulsively.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Just know that Lawrence is not the only =
founding member of the KLI.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div=
class=3D"">There have been a number of artists who have offered their =
craft to the KLI. One of them invented the KLI=E2=80=99s logo. Neither =
Marc Orkand nor Paramount was not involved in that project. Lawrence =
asked for something that suggested the trefoil that belongs to =
Paramount, but would be sufficiently different from it to avoid issues =
of copyright, and was very happy with what the artist came up with. He =
could name the artist. I can=E2=80=99t. It was done within the first =
decade of the KLI, perhaps in the latter half of that decade.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">HoD Qanqor and Seqram =
attended the one and only Klingon camp (I think in Minnesota) the year =
before qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 wa=E2=80=99DIch =E2=80=94 the endeavor of =
a competing Klingon Language organization that did not survive. That was =
intended to be an annual event, but it didn=E2=80=99t pan out. At the =
time, HoD Qanqor was the only individual in the 20th century on Earth =
who could speak the language. Seqram was jealous, since he could already =
speak over a dozen languages, most of which were either =E2=80=9Cdead=E2=80=
=9D or artificial, so at qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 wa=E2=80=99DIch, he, =
too, could speak the language and the rest of us gawked, and pulled out =
our dictionaries a lot.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">By qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 cha=E2=80=99DIch several of us =
could haltingly speak the language, pulling out our dictionaries a lot. =
Especially once Qov showed up, having memorized all the words the rest =
of us hadn=E2=80=99t gotten around to learning yet. We call them =E2=80=9C=
Qov words=E2=80=9D.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">And ghuyDo=E2=80=99 wa=E2=80=99, who also memorized the =
entire vocabulary=E2=80=A6 and the entire taH pagh taHbe=E2=80=99 =
monologue spoken so fast it was painful to attempt to parse. (For me, =
anyway.)</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Seqram =
accidentally invented the word for =E2=80=9Carmpit=E2=80=9D, which was =
eventually turned into an actual canon word by Okrand, as a joke. Seqram =
had created it as an example of why we should not make up words, and =
someone missed the point and added it to their dictionary. A year later, =
the person who made the mistake claimed it was a canon word, though he =
couldn=E2=80=99t remember the source. Extensive research of the archives =
(by ghunchu=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99) revealed the origin and we shared it =
with Marc Okrand as a joke, whereupon he gleefully explained that it =
really was the word for =E2=80=9Carmpit=E2=80=9D. And poof! He waves his =
magic wand, and it=E2=80=99s an official word.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I accidentally gave an existing word a =
new definition because of an alignment error in the copy of my =
dictionary that I gave to Okrand, and he turned into canon in the word =
list at the end of one of his later books. Klingon for the Galactic =
Traveler, maybe? I don=E2=80=99t have them with me.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">There are words like =
{yID} - =E2=80=9Cto be Jewish=E2=80=9D, which are NOT canon words, and =
continue to exist as jokes, very persistently explained to NOT be canon =
words, every time they are used.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">There has never been an instance where =
anyone except Marc Okrand has invented a word and then, without Marc =
eventually declaring it canon, it became canon.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">He has granted several of us a one-time =
privilege to ask for a word from Maltz. I was offered that, and instead =
of coming up with something, I just passed forward a request from =
someone else on this list for words for =E2=80=9Ctop=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Cbottom=E2=80=9D, since that seemed like a more useful word than =
anything I could come up with on short notice. Each of the =E2=80=9CFriend=
s of Maltz=E2=80=9D was granted this privilege for life-time =
contributions to the language.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Marc Okrand is a kind, gracious man who =
guards his privacy, and we are happy to respect that privacy as a sign =
of respect for the gift he gave us. He was hired to coach actors to dub =
gibberish for a movie. He came up with the idea of inventing an entire =
language. That choice on his part was the spark that made all of this =
happen.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">And it =
is magical how far it has gone from there.</div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class=3D"">pItlh</div><div =
class=3D"">lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></span><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Oct 30, 2015, at 1:14 PM, qurgh lungqIj <<a =
href=3D"mailto:qurgh@wizage.net" class=3D"">qurgh@wizage.net</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 12:49 PM, qunnoQ HoD <span =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">i just read this link,and =
unfortunately it doesn't provide direct answers - or any answers at all =
- to the aforementioned questions. thank you very much though !<br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">It seemed to answer your first =
question:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80)" class=3D"">how long after the creation of =
klingon language was the KLI formed ?<br class=3D""></span><br =
class=3D"">The language (dictionary) came out in <span =
style=3D"font-family: Ubuntu, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: =
18.5714px;" class=3D"">1985 and the KLI started in </span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Ubuntu, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: =
18.5714px;" class=3D"">1992, so that would be 1992-1985 =3D 7 years =
after</span></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""> </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>from =
what i read two more questions arose.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div>it mentioned an opera 'u' written and performed in =
klingon. where can i find the text of this opera ?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The text of the opera 'u' became the =
text of the paq'batlh. That's the closest you'll be able to get right =
now. </div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"h5"><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><br class=3D"">did okrand know any of the =
founding members of KLI,prior to the creation of the language ?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><=
/div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Only Lawrence can probably answer that question as he was the =
only founding member. </div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""> </div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"h5"><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">has any of the founding members of KLI created =
vocabulary and/or grammar,which is considered canon ?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><=
/div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br class=3D"">No. Only =
Okrand has created vocabulary and/or grammar that is considered canon. =
Although he may have based his ideas on other people's =
ideas/requests.<br class=3D""> </div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"h5"><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><br class=3D"">with regards to the KLI =
logo/emblem. (the spiked wheel,with the three blades within it..)<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">who designed it ?<br class=3D"">how long has =
it been the logo of KLI ?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><=
/div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">For as long as I can remember (20+ years?)</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""> </div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"h5"><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">has Okrand had anything to do with its creation =
?</div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div=
></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Unlikely.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">qurgh</div></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol=
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br =
class=3D"">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=
--Apple-Mail=_46FFA40F-5340-46C6-A861-78A417E8560D--
--===============4102280616964666181==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
--===============4102280616964666181==--
