[101665] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Things missing
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Will Martin)
Thu Oct 29 17:46:55 2015
From: Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:46:38 -0400
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cKxjguU9yXM4uieoakL=s6YAV7WaDHG3SOwRm1m-ZM5pw@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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This is not a good sign.
You were apparently expecting to be insulted, and so you were, and you =
are doing everything possible to amplify your victim status.
Not impressive.
I=E2=80=99m merely telling you that when you hit the ground running on =
with advice on what the rest of us should be doing when you, yourself, =
have very little experience here, you are not participating like a =
normal community member. Instead, you are pushy.
You don=E2=80=99t have to do that. You have lots of other options.
Chill.
I=E2=80=99m not trying to insult you. I=E2=80=99m trying to inform you =
that you are coming on really strong, as others have in the past, and =
the record for people coming on like this is not good. Maybe you=E2=80=99l=
l be The Exception.
But probably not.
The bones of others who have come on like this are scattered through the =
archives.
Ease up and just learn the language first. Earn your stripes. Make your =
contributions. Respect others. Don=E2=80=99t start out claiming a higher =
level of authority than the entire body of the community, pushing us =
toward your version of perfection.
Or fight stupid battles for no one=E2=80=99s benefit.
Your choice=E2=80=A6
=E2=80=A6 though it seems like you=E2=80=99ve already made up your =
mind...
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
> On Oct 29, 2015, at 12:55 PM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> > It=E2=80=99s a little disrespectful of all that support to express =
excessive demands that you apparently believe are owed to you because =
you are so gracious as to invest your valuable time and skill toward =
learning it.
>=20
> you know,as english in not my native language i always make sure that =
after i write an email,i read it again so as to make sure that i have =
not made any mistakes. Surely some typographic errors almost always are =
missed,but i believe that i would see whether i wrote something =
"disrespectful". You suggest that i'm arrogant,determined to be "the big =
boss". Seriously ? After all i wrote this is your conclusion ? What i =
wrote is my opinion about what is missing from the Klingon language,for =
it to be made complete. It was my opinion,and i believe mailing =
lists/forums etc. exist for the exchange of ideas,between people who =
have similar interests.
>=20
>=20
> > Don=E2=80=99t disrespect that opportunity by demanding that all =
politics within the group change to accommodate your new idea of how =
things ought to be done.
>=20
> apparently you believe that you own Klingon language,and that you have =
the authority to pass judgement on anyone who would say that there are =
things missing ; that anyone new who refuses to "shut up" and say how =
wonderful everything is must be characterized in the worst way,and be =
black-listed.
>=20
>=20
> > Are you prepared to spend money to get the Klingon language fixed? =
Or are you just expecting a bunch of volunteers to do this for you?
>=20
> did i write that money should be spent ? did i write that i do not =
recognize that there are practical problems ? I wrote what would be nice =
to exist/happen. I believe that from my first post i wrote how i realize =
that there are copyright issues,which i understand and respect.=20
>=20
>=20
> > Maybe you=E2=80=99d rather work with some easier language.
>=20
> Since you know nothing of me,do not insult me by saying that i cannot =
cope with the demands of a difficult language. Or by implying that i'm =
lazy. You do not know the exams i have passed in my life,you do not know =
how hard i've worked or under which circumstances i have studied =
thousands of hours to meet the demands of my profession. Pass judgement =
on those who you know in person.
>=20
> ..you answered the "who's to decide" by saying Okrand. I believe i =
already said that too. Which part of "for copyright reasons" didn't you =
understand ?
>=20
>=20
> > Those who come into the group like gangsters, determined to be the =
big boss who tells us what we are doing wrong and how we need to do =
things from now on. They generally cause disruption, make the mailing =
list unpleasant enough that a lot of people unsubscribe, and they might =
last a year before leaving in a huff, never to be heard from again.
>=20
> ok,since you've got me all figured out,all because i "committed the =
crime" of sharing some of my thoughts,i would like to write about the =
three types of old members one finds in mailing lists/forums etc..
>=20
> 1. members who no longer participate frequently in discussions,because =
they are tired after many years of participation. they feel that they =
have nothing more to discuss,and are just bored to keep on writing about =
the same things again and again.
> 2. members who are willing to share their experience/seniority with =
new members,all in the spirit of healthy exchange of ideas/thoughts
> 3. bullies. in the high school sense of the bully.. those who think =
that their seniority gives them the right to push around any new =
member,who so happens to write anything that doesn't inflate even =
more,their already inflated ego. Those who demand that anyone new,will =
be awed by their knowledge and that whenever he disagrees he must be =
reminded that "he will not make it around here" and that he better leave =
while he still has time.
>=20
> how pathetic..
>=20
> qunnoQ HoD
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 6:46 PM, Tim Stoffel <tim@lionlamb.us =
<mailto:tim@lionlamb.us>> wrote:
> I'm not saying we should impose such a mechanism. We just need to =
think
> about the future, that's all.
>=20
> Tim Stoffel
>=20
> --
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name <mailto:sustel@trimboli.name>>
> To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org <mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Things missing
> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 09:27:10 -0400
>=20
> On 10/29/2015 2:16 AM, Tim Stoffel wrote:
> > Considering what the Klingon language community has accomplished =
over
> > the years, it would be a shame to think that the end of Marc Okrand
> > (which I hope is no time soon!) could be the end of the Klingon
> > language.
> >
> > We need a mechanism to keep the language alive.
>=20
> Such a mechanism can be dreamed up at such time as Okrand leaves us or
> decides not to do Klingon anymore. Why try to impose it now? The
> language won't suddenly evaporate when he's gone.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org <mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol =
<http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol>
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">This is not a good sign.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">You were apparently =
expecting to be insulted, and so you were, and you are doing everything =
possible to amplify your victim status.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Not impressive.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I=E2=80=99m merely telling you that =
when you hit the ground running on with advice on what the rest of us =
should be doing when you, yourself, have very little experience here, =
you are not participating like a normal community member. Instead, you =
are pushy.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">You =
don=E2=80=99t have to do that. You have lots of other options.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Chill.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I=E2=80=99m not trying =
to insult you. I=E2=80=99m trying to inform you that you are coming on =
really strong, as others have in the past, and the record for people =
coming on like this is not good. Maybe you=E2=80=99ll be The =
Exception.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">But =
probably not.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">The bones of others who have come on like this are scattered =
through the archives.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Ease up and just learn the language first. Earn your stripes. =
Make your contributions. Respect others. Don=E2=80=99t start out =
claiming a higher level of authority than the entire body of the =
community, pushing us toward your version of perfection.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Or fight stupid battles =
for no one=E2=80=99s benefit.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Your choice=E2=80=A6</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">=E2=80=A6 though it =
seems like you=E2=80=99ve already made up your mind...</div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class=3D"">pItlh</div><div =
class=3D"">lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></span><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Oct 29, 2015, at 12:55 PM, qunnoQ HoD <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" class=3D"">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">> It=E2=80=99s a little disrespectful of all =
that support to express excessive demands that you apparently believe =
are owed to you because you are so gracious as to invest your valuable =
time and skill toward learning it.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">you =
know,as english in not my native language i always make sure that after =
i write an email,i read it again so as to make sure that i have not made =
any mistakes. Surely some typographic errors almost always are =
missed,but i believe that i would see whether i wrote something =
"disrespectful". You suggest that i'm arrogant,determined to be "the big =
boss". Seriously ? After all i wrote this is your conclusion ? What i =
wrote is my opinion about what is missing from the Klingon language,for =
it to be made complete. It was my opinion,and i believe mailing =
lists/forums etc. exist for the exchange of ideas,between people who =
have similar interests.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">> =
Don=E2=80=99t disrespect that opportunity by demanding that all politics =
within the group change to accommodate your new idea of how things ought =
to be done.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">apparently you believe that you =
own Klingon language,and that you have the authority to pass judgement =
on anyone who would say that there are things missing ; that anyone new =
who refuses to "shut up" and say how wonderful everything is must be =
characterized in the worst way,and be black-listed.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">> Are you prepared to spend money to =
get the Klingon language fixed? Or are you just expecting a bunch of =
volunteers to do this for you?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">did i write =
that money should be spent ? did i write that i do not recognize that =
there are practical problems ? I wrote what would be nice to =
exist/happen. I believe that from my first post i wrote how i realize =
that there are copyright issues,which i understand and respect. <br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">> Maybe you=E2=80=99d rather =
work with some easier language.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Since you =
know nothing of me,do not insult me by saying that i cannot cope with =
the demands of a difficult language. Or by implying that i'm lazy. You =
do not know the exams i have passed in my life,you do not know how hard =
i've worked or under which circumstances i have studied thousands of =
hours to meet the demands of my profession. Pass judgement on those who =
you know in person.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">..you answered the =
"who's to decide" by saying Okrand. I believe i already said that too. =
Which part of "for copyright reasons" didn't you understand ?<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">> Those who come into the =
group like gangsters, determined to be the big boss who tells us what we =
are doing wrong and how we need to do things from now on. They generally =
cause disruption, make the mailing list unpleasant enough that a lot of =
people unsubscribe, and they might last a year before leaving in a huff, =
never to be heard from again.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">ok,since =
you've got me all figured out,all because i "committed the crime" of =
sharing some of my thoughts,i would like to write about the three types =
of old members one finds in mailing lists/forums etc..<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">1. members who no longer participate frequently in =
discussions,because they are tired after many years of participation. =
they feel that they have nothing more to discuss,and are just bored to =
keep on writing about the same things again and again.<br class=3D"">2. =
members who are willing to share their experience/seniority with new =
members,all in the spirit of healthy exchange of ideas/thoughts<br =
class=3D"">3. bullies. in the high school sense of the bully.. those who =
think that their seniority gives them the right to push around any new =
member,who so happens to write anything that doesn't inflate even =
more,their already inflated ego. Those who demand that anyone new,will =
be awed by their knowledge and that whenever he disagrees he must be =
reminded that "he will not make it around here" and that he better leave =
while he still has time.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">how pathetic..<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">qunnoQ HoD<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, =
Oct 29, 2015 at 6:46 PM, Tim Stoffel <span dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><<a =
href=3D"mailto:tim@lionlamb.us" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">tim@lionlamb.us</a>></span> wrote:<br class=3D""><blockquote=
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">I'm not saying we should impose such a =
mechanism. We just need to think<br class=3D"">
about the future, that's all.<br class=3D"">
<span class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br class=3D"">
Tim Stoffel<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
--<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
-----Original Message-----<br class=3D"">
</span><span class=3D"im HOEnZb">From: SuStel <<a =
href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" =
class=3D"">sustel@trimboli.name</a>><br class=3D"">
To: <a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org" =
class=3D"">tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br class=3D"">
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Things missing<br class=3D"">
</span><span class=3D"im HOEnZb">Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 09:27:10 =
-0400<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
On 10/29/2015 2:16 AM, Tim Stoffel wrote:<br class=3D"">
> Considering what the Klingon language community has accomplished =
over<br class=3D"">
> the years, it would be a shame to think that the end of Marc =
Okrand<br class=3D"">
> (which I hope is no time soon!) could be the end of the Klingon<br =
class=3D"">
> language.<br class=3D"">
><br class=3D"">
> We need a mechanism to keep the language alive.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Such a mechanism can be dreamed up at such time as Okrand leaves us =
or<br class=3D"">
decides not to do Klingon anymore. Why try to impose it now? The<br =
class=3D"">
language won't suddenly evaporate when he's gone.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div =
class=3D"h5">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">
Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br =
class=3D"">
</div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol=
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br =
class=3D"">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=
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