[101559] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] {-be'} and {-qu'} with type 7 and 9 verb suffixes
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Tue Oct 27 22:20:10 2015
From: "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
To: <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <684504684.599248.1445989117103.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 19:19:51 -0700
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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I don=E2=80=99t remember ever seeing this idea before. Your suggestions =
of what they might mean are not implausible. It seems very odd to =
reverse the semantic meaning of a type-9, and we=E2=80=99ve never seen =
it in canon, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean it could never happen. =
I=E2=80=99m constructing words and trying to feel what they might mean =
to me, and how else I might express that meaning.
?Heghpa=E2=80=99be=E2=80=99 qama=E2=80=99 mejlaH =E2=80=98avwI=E2=80=99. =
=3D yIntaHvIS qama=E2=80=99 ratlhnIS =E2=80=98avwI=E2=80=99.
?choQaHchughbe=E2=80=99 jIHegh. =3D choQaHbe=E2=80=99chugh jIHegh =
=E2=80=98ej choQaHchugh jIHegh.
?DaneH=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99be=E2=80=99? =3D =
DaneHbe=E2=80=99=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99? =E2=80=93 already a question we =
don=E2=80=99t know how to answer with HIja=E2=80=99 or ghobe=E2=80=99, =
but if {DaneH=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99be=E2=80=99} is valid I=E2=80=99ll bet =
the answer is the opposite of {DaneHbe=E2=80=99=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99}.
?malaDtaHvISbe=E2=80=99 =3D ... I can=E2=80=99t make it mean something =
different from malaDbe=E2=80=99taHvIS.
Of yours, I think -chughqu=E2=80=99 for if and only if is the biggest =
stretch. I=E2=80=99d get only _IF_ ... which now that I put it that =
way is momspeak (assuming your mom isn=E2=80=99t a mathematician) for =
iff.
I imagine that if the idea were put to Maltz=E2=80=94who is known to be =
in Germany this week=E2=80=94that he=E2=80=99d wrinkle his nose and say =
that such things sounded like something a professor or a rental car =
contract might say, not normal conversational tools. That would explain =
why we=E2=80=99ve never seen such things in canon. ;-)
Such constructions won=E2=80=99t mean anything to other Klingon =
speakers, but it=E2=80=99s one of the most interesting, =E2=80=9CWhat if =
Klingon worked this way?=E2=80=9D posts I=E2=80=99ve seen in a long =
time. You could write it up in more detail for submission to the reboot =
of HolQeD that we seem to be organizing in another thread.=20
=20
- Qov
=20
From: Michael K=C3=BAnin [mailto:netzakh@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: October 27, 2015 16:39
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] {-be'} and {-qu'} with type 7 and 9 verb =
suffixes
=20
While the usage of these rovers with main verbs and with type 2 suffixes =
or {-laH} is well attested, it occurred to me that nothing explicitly =
prevents {-be'} and {-qu'} from being added to ANY verb suffix. If this =
is possible, this would create quite interesting constructions.
=20
For example:
=20
{-chughbe'} "not if" =3D "regardless of" ?
{-chughqu'} "intensively if" =3D "if and only if" ?
{-pa'be'} "not before" =3D "after" ?
=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-CA link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I don=E2=80=99t remember ever seeing this idea before.=C2=A0 Your =
suggestions of what they might mean are not implausible. It seems very =
odd to reverse the semantic meaning of a type-9, and we=E2=80=99ve never =
seen it in canon, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean it could never happen. =
I=E2=80=99m constructing words and trying to feel what they might mean =
to me, and how else I might express that =
meaning.<br><br>?Heghpa=E2=80=99be=E2=80=99 qama=E2=80=99 mejlaH =
=E2=80=98avwI=E2=80=99. =3D yIntaHvIS qama=E2=80=99 ratlhnIS =
=E2=80=98avwI=E2=80=99.<br>?choQaHchughbe=E2=80=99 jIHegh. =3D =
choQaHbe=E2=80=99chugh jIHegh =E2=80=98ej choQaHchugh =
jIHegh.<br>?DaneH=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99be=E2=80=99? =3D =
DaneHbe=E2=80=99=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99? =E2=80=93 already a question we =
don=E2=80=99t know how to answer with HIja=E2=80=99 or ghobe=E2=80=99, =
but if {DaneH=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99be=E2=80=99} is valid I=E2=80=99ll bet =
the answer is the opposite of =
{DaneHbe=E2=80=99=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99}.<br>?malaDtaHvISbe=E2=80=99 =3D =
... I can=E2=80=99t make it mean something different from =
malaDbe=E2=80=99taHvIS.<br><br>Of yours, I think -chughqu=E2=80=99 for =
if and only if is the biggest stretch.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99d get only =
_<i>IF</i>_ =C2=A0... which now that I put it that way is momspeak =
(assuming your mom isn=E2=80=99t a mathematician) for iff.<br><br>I =
imagine that if the idea were put to Maltz=E2=80=94who is known to be in =
Germany this week=E2=80=94that he=E2=80=99d wrinkle his nose and say =
that such things sounded like something a professor or a rental car =
contract might say, not normal conversational tools.=C2=A0 That would =
explain why we=E2=80=99ve never seen such things in canon. =
;-)<br><br>Such constructions won=E2=80=99t mean anything to other =
Klingon speakers, but it=E2=80=99s one of the most interesting, =
=E2=80=9CWhat if Klingon worked this way?=E2=80=9D posts I=E2=80=99ve =
seen in a long time.=C2=A0 You could write it up in more detail for =
submission to the reboot of HolQeD that we seem to be organizing in =
another thread. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>- Qov<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Michael =
K=C3=BAnin [mailto:netzakh@yahoo.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> October 27, 2015 =
16:39<br><b>To:</b> tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br><b>Subject:</b> =
[Tlhingan-hol] {-be'} and {-qu'} with type 7 and 9 verb =
suffixes<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div id=3Dyiv7091708529><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1445989149680_3502"><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1445989149680_3501"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>While the usage =
of these rovers with main verbs and with type 2 suffixes or {-laH} is =
well attested, it occurred to me that nothing explicitly prevents {-be'} =
and {-qu'} from being added to ANY verb suffix. If this is =
possible, this would create quite interesting =
constructions.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1445989149680_3672"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p=
></span></p></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1445989149680_3673"><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>For =
example:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1445989149680_3692"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p=
></span></p></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1445989149680_3693"><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>{-chughbe'} =
"not if" =3D "regardless of" =
?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1445989149680_3694"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>{-chughqu'} =
"intensively if" =3D "if and only if" =
?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1445989149680_3695"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>{-pa'be'} =
"not before" =3D "after" =
?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1445989149680_3696"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p=
></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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