[101324] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country Klingon
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (HoD qunnoQ)
Fri Oct 9 16:09:35 2015
In-Reply-To: <007a01d102c8$2a8e0400$7faa0c00$@flyingstart.ca>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 23:09:15 +0300
From: HoD qunnoQ <mihkoun@gmail.com>
To: Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
Cc: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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i would not like to insult you ; so lets begin again this conversation from
a more interesting starting point..
HaqwI' jIH
qunnoQ
On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 10:24 PM, Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca> wrote=
:
> maj. (well done)
>
> The =E2=80=9Cyou=E2=80=9D equivalent of jIH is SoH. SoH means =E2=80=9Cyo=
u=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cyou are=E2=80=9D just the
> way jIH means =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CI am=E2=80=9D.
>
> So to continue our conversation, I could agree with you, and say =E2=80=
=9CHuman
> SoH.=E2=80=9D
>
> But stating the obvious to make idle conversation would not be a very
> Klingon thing to do. Instead I=E2=80=99ll insult you and say Ha=E2=80=99=
DIbaH SoH, which
> means =E2=80=9CYou are a cur,=E2=80=9D and would be quite Klingon. Insul=
t me back, and
> then we=E2=80=99ll progress to another conversational tactic.
>
> (Other spectators who think they are light years from Klingon conversatio=
n
> are welcome to join in).
>
>
>
> - Qov
>
>
>
> *From:* HoD qunnoQ [mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* October 9, 2015 11:20
>
> *To:* Robyn Stewart
> *Cc:* tlhIngan Hol mailing list
> *Subject:* Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country
> Klingon Dialogue
>
>
>
> Human jIH
>
> (I picked an easy one..)
>
> qunnoQ
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 7:50 PM, Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
> wrote:
>
> Not really. You=E2=80=99re within wa=E2=80=99 netlh qelI=E2=80=99qam (~2=
0,000 km) of every
> Klingon speaker there is, and thanks to the internet you can communicate
> with all of us within microseconds. It takes very little Klingon to have =
a
> conversation, and once you have that first conversation, you will have
> established a beachhead from which to conquer the language.
>
>
>
> Here=E2=80=99s the first thing I taught the beginners at qep=E2=80=99a=E2=
=80=99: how to say =E2=80=9CI am
> a ____=E2=80=9D. It is =E2=80=9C____ jIH.=E2=80=9D
>
> jIH is a member of the chuvmey class of words. It acts as the prounoun
> =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=9D and also means =E2=80=9CI am.=E2=80=9D
>
> tlhIngan jIH =3D I am a Klingon
> =E2=80=98orwI=E2=80=99 jIH =3D I am a pilot
>
> tera=E2=80=99ngan jIH =3D I am an Earther
>
> Look up a word (has to be a noun) that you are, and tell me you are that.
>
> Instead of looking at the Klingon language as a massive challenge you hav=
e
> to be someone special to meet, or psyche yourself up to begin, just learn
> one thing at a time until qaSta=E2=80=99! You have learned it.
>
>
>
> - Qov
>
> *From:* HoD qunnoQ [mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* October 9, 2015 4:43
> *To:* Robyn Stewart
> *Cc:* tlhIngan Hol mailing list
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country
> Klingon Dialogue
>
>
>
> >Regardless, I will be delighted to converse with you in
> intelligibly-spoken Klingon, no matter what your spit range might be.
>
> I would be delighted too,but unfortunately i'm light years away from bein=
g
> able to actually converse with someone in Klingon..
>
> qunnoQ
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 1:16 AM, Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
> wrote:
>
> Different languages _*are*_ spoken in different ways. Klingon does have
> to be spoken somewhat forcefully to distinguish between some of the raspy
> consonants. The rhythm of Italian helps to distinguish between doubled an=
d
> single consonants. Russian declarative sentences are said with a kind of
> monotone, falling off at the end. If I were to speak Russian fluently an=
d
> with the peppy little rises and falls of my native language, it wouldn=E2=
=80=99t
> sound right. I=E2=80=99m still weirded out by the instruction that it is=
incorrect
> to speak Cree with emotion in my voice, that the old western stereotype o=
f
> the Indian guide saying =E2=80=9Call my family die=E2=80=9D in the same f=
lat tone as =E2=80=9Csoon
> will rain=E2=80=9D is based in truth. I had a Korean student who knew Eng=
lish quite
> well, with reasonable pronunciation but was really hard to understand
> because he used the rhythm of his own language. When I tried to get him t=
o
> put longer pauses in so an examiner could understand, he protested that h=
e
> didn=E2=80=99t want to sound stupid. This was before YouTube, so I had t=
o get him
> to take my word for it that great speeches in English show that its skill=
ed
> speakers SLOW DOWN to sound smart.
>
> Speaking Klingon with the fluent rhythm of English is probably as wrong a=
s
> speaking it with the rhythm of Italian or Japanese. The =E2=80=98native=
=E2=80=99 Klingon
> speakers we hear tend to speak in a staccato manner, yet Azetbur manages =
to
> do it without overly chewing the scenery. Perhaps it=E2=80=99s because of=
her
> gender, or is an affectation. Regardless, I will be delighted to converse
> with you in intelligibly-spoken Klingon, no matter what your spit range
> might be.
>
>
>
> - Qov
>
>
>
> *From:* HoD qunnoQ [mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* October 8, 2015 13:06
> *To:* Lieven
> *Cc:* tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country
> Klingon Dialogue
>
>
>
> indeed.. if i ever managed to become proficient in Klingon,so as to speak
> it like i speak my native language,then this is the way i would like to
> speak it ; mildly and relaxed. i don't know why,but this manner of speaki=
ng
> appeals to me as more instinctive and natural.
>
> qunnoQ
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 9:46 PM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> Am 08.10.2015 um 17:54 schrieb HoD qunnoQ:
>
> nuqneH
>
> i made this observation...
>
>
> That's a very good observation, and it's more important than what most
> people would believe it to be.
>
> Indeed, I guess it's simply the actor who speaks a bit differently than
> others. Perhabs it was even done intentional, because Azetbur was sad?
> Maybe it's because she's a woman. I don't know, compare to Valkris or
> Uhura (although she's not klingon, so maybe she doesn't count)
>
> Anyhow, I love showing this scene to my students because it makes clear
> that one can speak klingon in a very natural way, as opposed to what many
> people believe is that you need to shout and bark klingon all the time.
>
> Klingon can be spoken like a natural language, and Azetbur has proven thi=
s
> quite well in that scene.
>
>
> --
> Lieven L. Litaer
> aka Quvar valer 'utlh
> Grammarian of the KLI
> http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher
> http://www.klingonwiki.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>i would not like to insult you ; so lets begin a=
gain this conversation from a more interesting starting point..<br><br></di=
v>HaqwI' jIH<br><br></div>qunnoQ<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 10:24 PM, Robyn Stewart=
<span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:robyn@flyingstart.ca" target=3D"_b=
lank">robyn@flyingstart.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-CA"><div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1f497d">maj. (well done)<br><br>The =E2=80=
=9Cyou=E2=80=9D equivalent of jIH is SoH. SoH means =E2=80=9Cyou=E2=80=9D o=
r =E2=80=9Cyou are=E2=80=9D just the way jIH means =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=9D or =
=E2=80=9CI am=E2=80=9D.<br><br>So to continue our conversation, I could agr=
ee with you, and say =E2=80=9CHuman SoH.=E2=80=9D<br><br>But stating the ob=
vious to make idle conversation would not be a very Klingon thing to do.=C2=
=A0 Instead I=E2=80=99ll insult you and say Ha=E2=80=99DIbaH SoH, which mea=
ns =E2=80=9CYou are a cur,=E2=80=9D and would be quite Klingon.=C2=A0 Insul=
t me back, and then we=E2=80=99ll progress to another conversational tactic=
. <br><br><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#1f497d">(Other spectators who think they are light years from Klingon con=
versation are welcome to join in).<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",&quo=
t;sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri&qu=
ot;,"sans-serif";color:#1f497d">- Qov<u></u><u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-seri=
f"" lang=3D"EN-US"> HoD qunnoQ [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail=
.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> October 9, =
2015 11:20</span></p><div><div class=3D"h5"><br><b>To:</b> Robyn Stewart<br=
><b>Cc:</b> tlhIngan Hol mailing list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol]=
Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country Klingon Dialogue<u></u><u></u></div>=
</div><p></p><div><div class=3D"h5"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>=
</u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hum=
an jIH=C2=A0 <br><br>(I picked an easy one..)<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal">qunnoQ<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Oct =
9, 2015 at 7:50 PM, Robyn Stewart <<a href=3D"mailto:robyn@flyingstart.c=
a" target=3D"_blank">robyn@flyingstart.ca</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Not really.=C2=
=A0 You=E2=80=99re within wa=E2=80=99 netlh qelI=E2=80=99qam (~20,000 km) o=
f every Klingon speaker there is, and thanks to the internet you can commun=
icate with all of us within microseconds. It takes very little Klingon to h=
ave a conversation, and once you have that first conversation, you will hav=
e established a beachhead from which to conquer the language.</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><=
u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Here=E2=
=80=99s the first thing I taught the beginners at qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99: h=
ow to say =E2=80=9CI am a ____=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 It is =E2=80=9C____ jIH.=E2=
=80=9D<br><br>jIH =C2=A0is a member of the chuvmey class of words. It acts =
as the prounoun =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=9D and also means =E2=80=9CI am.=E2=80=9D<=
br><br>tlhIngan jIH =3D I am a Klingon<br>=E2=80=98orwI=E2=80=99 jIH =3D I =
am a pilot</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#1f497d">tera=E2=80=99ngan jIH =3D I am an Earther<br><br>Look up a word (=
has to be a noun) that you are, and tell me you are that.<br><br>Instead of=
looking at the Klingon language as a massive challenge you have to be some=
one special to meet, or psyche yourself up to begin, just learn one thing a=
t a time until qaSta=E2=80=99! You have learned it.</span><u></u><u></u></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";co=
lor:#1f497d">- Qov</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif&q=
uot;" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang=3D"EN-US"> HoD qunnoQ=
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gma=
il.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> October 9, 2015 4:43<br><b>To:</b> Robyn Stewa=
rt<br><b>Cc:</b> tlhIngan Hol mailing list</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Star Trek V=
I The Undiscovered Country Klingon Dialogue<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><d=
iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f4=
97d">Regardless, I will be delighted to converse with you in intelligibly-s=
poken Klingon, no matter what your spit range might be.</span><u></u><u></u=
></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;;color:#1f497d">I would be delighted too,but unfortunately i'm light y=
ears away from being able to actually converse with someone in Klingon..</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497=
d">qunnoQ</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<=
u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 1:16 AM=
, Robyn Stewart <<a href=3D"mailto:robyn@flyingstart.ca" target=3D"_blan=
k">robyn@flyingstart.ca</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri&qu=
ot;,"sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Different languages _<i>are</i>_ =
spoken in different ways. Klingon does have to be spoken somewhat forcefull=
y to distinguish between some of the raspy consonants. The rhythm of Italia=
n helps to distinguish between doubled and single consonants.=C2=A0 Russian=
declarative sentences are said with a kind of monotone, falling off at the=
end.=C2=A0 If I were to speak Russian fluently and with the peppy little r=
ises and falls of my native language, it wouldn=E2=80=99t sound right.=C2=
=A0 I=E2=80=99m still weirded out by the instruction that it is incorrect t=
o speak Cree with emotion in my voice, that the old western stereotype of t=
he Indian guide saying =E2=80=9Call my family die=E2=80=9D in the same flat=
tone as =E2=80=9Csoon will rain=E2=80=9D is based in truth. I had a Korean=
student who knew English quite well, with reasonable pronunciation but was=
really hard to understand because he used the rhythm of his own language. =
When I tried to get him to put longer pauses in so an examiner could unders=
tand, he protested that he didn=E2=80=99t want to sound stupid.=C2=A0 This =
was before YouTube, so I had to get him to take my word for it that great s=
peeches in English show that its skilled speakers SLOW DOWN to sound smart.=
</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">=
Speaking Klingon with the fluent rhythm of English is probably as wrong as =
speaking it with the rhythm of Italian or Japanese. The =E2=80=98native=E2=
=80=99 Klingon speakers we hear tend to speak in a staccato manner, yet Aze=
tbur manages to do it without overly chewing the scenery. Perhaps it=E2=80=
=99s because of her gender, or is an affectation. Regardless, I will be del=
ighted to converse with you in intelligibly-spoken Klingon, no matter what =
your spit range might be.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","s=
ans-serif";color:#1f497d">- Qov</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",&q=
uot;sans-serif";color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma&=
quot;,"sans-serif"" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" la=
ng=3D"EN-US"> HoD qunnoQ [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> October 8, 2015 13:06<=
br><b>To:</b> Lieven<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@stodi.dig=
italkingdom.org" target=3D"_blank">tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org</a=
><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Count=
ry Klingon Dialogue</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-=
bottom:12.0pt">indeed.. if i ever managed to become proficient in Klingon,s=
o as to speak it like i speak my native language,then this is the way i wou=
ld like to speak it ; mildly and relaxed. i don't know why,but this man=
ner of speaking appeals to me as more instinctive and natural.<u></u><u></u=
></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">qunnoQ<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu=
, Oct 8, 2015 at 9:46 PM, Lieven <<a href=3D"mailto:levinius@gmx.de" tar=
get=3D"_blank">levinius@gmx.de</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal">Am 08.10.2015 um 17:54 schrieb HoD qunnoQ:<u></u><u></u></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal">nuqneH<br><br>i made this observation...<u></u><u></u></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>That's a very good observation, and it'=
;s more important than what most people would believe it to be.<br><br>Inde=
ed, I guess it's simply the actor who speaks a bit differently than oth=
ers. Perhabs it was even done intentional, because Azetbur was sad?<br>Mayb=
e it's because she's a woman. I don't know, compare to Valkris =
or Uhura (although she's not klingon, so maybe she doesn't count)<b=
r><br>Anyhow, I love showing this scene to my students because it makes cle=
ar that one can speak klingon in a very natural way, as opposed to what man=
y people believe is that you need to shout and bark klingon all the time.<b=
r><br>Klingon can be spoken like a natural language, and Azetbur has proven=
this quite well in that scene.<span style=3D"color:#888888"><br><br><br>--=
<br>Lieven L. Litaer<br>aka Quvar valer 'utlh<br>Grammarian of the KLI=
<br><a href=3D"http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher</a><br><a href=3D"http://www.klingonwi=
ki.net" target=3D"_blank">http://www.klingonwiki.net</a><br><br>___________=
____________________________________<br>Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br><a hre=
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