[101322] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: yoymoHwI'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?=)
Fri Oct 9 14:35:08 2015
In-Reply-To: <4BA70FE8-92E4-4D63-B8EC-CCD1065E7805@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 20:34:48 +0200
From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?= <esperantist@gmail.com>
To: Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Cc: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Hmm... either you are assuming that Klingon does not allow for metaphoric
expressions, while English does, or you don't like the thought that a word
might have several meanings.
Either way, I don't see any problem with this word. First, in the Star Trek
universe, an "inverter" could be anything, not just a device that converts
electric polarity. I'm not going to check Memory Alpha for different
instances of inverters, but I'm sure there are devices that switch other
subatomic things around or changes their behavior, perhaps spin, quark
flavor, the direction of certain currents/fluxes. Secondly, as our
languages (English, German, Chinese, Klingon, you name it) are all older
than these techniques, most of the terminology will in fact be metaphoric
or at least won't literally describe what happens. Even the words 'to
write' and 'to read' in German etymologically come from 'to carve' and 'to
collect'. Whatever an inverter inverts in Klingon, the underlying metaphor
is that of turning something upside down. The origin of that might be a
schematic or something like that, that was used to visualize the actual
ideas. Something was imagined as "up" and its opposite as "down". Switching
those two would be an inversion. And this is also applicable for your
inverters, given the appropriate metaphors.
I wouldn't even see this as a sloppy calque of an English term, it's rather
natural for languages to apply metaphoric extensions of meanings for highly
complex processes, and some of those terms are almost self-evident, even if
they are physically inaccurate.
- Andr=C3=A9
2015-10-09 17:20 GMT+02:00 Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>:
> wejpuH.
>
> The problem here, of course, is that in English, we use the word
> =E2=80=9Cinverter=E2=80=9D to describe a device that converts Direct Curr=
ent (DC)
> electricity, like from a battery or solar panel, into Alternating Current
> (AC), like from a wall socket in an average home. It doesn=E2=80=99t actu=
ally turn
> anything upside down. It uses power transistors, which are basically fast=
,
> electronic switches to switch between one polarity and another polarity. =
We
> probably should have called them =E2=80=9Cpolarity reversers=E2=80=9D and=
not =E2=80=9Cinverters=E2=80=9D.
>
> In other words, you have two wires. One is positive. One is negative.
> =E2=80=9CSquare wave=E2=80=9D inverters switch which wire is which 120 ti=
mes a second for
> 60 cycle AC current. Or modified sine wave inverters typically switch 480
> times a second between off, 55 volts positive, 110 volts positive, 55 vol=
ts
> positive, off, 55 volts negative, 110 volts negative, 55 volts negative,
> and off.
>
> Or =E2=80=9CTrue Sine Wave=E2=80=9D inverters are actually modified sine =
wave inverters
> placed in line with large-mass 1:1 transformers, using the magnetic inert=
ia
> of the iron core to smooth out the steps in the stepped waves to create
> smooth sine waves of AC current.
>
> So, in English, we used the word =E2=80=9Cinvert=E2=80=9D instead of =E2=
=80=9Creverse=E2=80=9D to describe
> what we=E2=80=99re doing to the electrical polarity of the wires, and Okr=
and takes
> the term =E2=80=9Cinvert=E2=80=9D and takes the =E2=80=9Cmake something u=
pside down=E2=80=9D interpretation
> of the term, and here we have a poorly descriptive English term for the
> task at hand that has perhaps now become a poorly descriptive Klingon ter=
m,
> unless of course, a Klingon {yoymoHwI=E2=80=99} is something that actuall=
y turns
> things upside down, and doesn=E2=80=99t have anything to do with converti=
ng DC to
> AC.
>
> Unless {yoymoH} actually has a broader scope of meaning, like =E2=80=9Cin=
vert=E2=80=9D,
> and while both CAN mean =E2=80=9Ccause to be upside down=E2=80=9D, they a=
lso can refer to
> other kinds of reversals of state.
>
> [sigh]
>
> pItlh
> lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
>
>
>
> > On Oct 9, 2015, at 10:58 AM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote=
:
> >
> >> Klingon Word of the Day for Friday, October 09, 2015
> >>
> >> Klingon word: yoymoHwI'
> >> Part of speech: noun
> >> Definition: inverter
> >> Source:
> >
> > Bill Willmerdinger, BabelCon 2 [4/07/1997]:
> >
> > "I had needed some technobable once and created 'inverter' ...
> > which Marc [Okrand] said was perfect."
> >
> > SEE ALSO:
> > yoy be upside down (v)
> > chong be vertical (v)
> > taH be at a negative angle (v)
> > lol be in an attitude (v)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Voragh
> > Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> > Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> > http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Hmm... either you are assuming that Klingon=
does not allow for metaphoric expressions, while English does, or you don&=
#39;t like the thought that a word might have several meanings.<br><br></di=
v>Either way, I don't see any problem with this word. First, in the Sta=
r Trek universe, an "inverter" could be anything, not just a devi=
ce that converts electric polarity. I'm not going to check Memory Alpha=
for different instances of inverters, but I'm sure there are devices t=
hat switch other subatomic things around or changes their behavior, perhaps=
spin, quark flavor, the direction of certain currents/fluxes. Secondly, as=
our languages (English, German, Chinese, Klingon, you name it) are all old=
er than these techniques, most of the terminology will in fact be metaphori=
c or at least won't literally describe what happens. Even the words =
9;to write' and 'to read' in German etymologically come from &#=
39;to carve' and 'to collect'. Whatever an inverter inverts in =
Klingon, the underlying metaphor is that of turning something upside down. =
The origin of that might be a schematic or something like that, that was us=
ed to visualize the actual ideas. Something was imagined as "up" =
and its opposite as "down". Switching those two would be an inver=
sion. And this is also applicable for your inverters, given the appropriate=
metaphors.<br><br></div>I wouldn't even see this as a sloppy calque of=
an English term, it's rather natural for languages to apply metaphoric=
extensions of meanings for highly complex processes, and some of those ter=
ms are almost self-evident, even if they are physically inaccurate.<br><br>=
</div>- Andr=C3=A9<br><div><div><div><div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><=
br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2015-10-09 17:20 GMT+02:00 Will Martin <span =
dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex">wejpuH.<br>
<br>
The problem here, of course, is that in English, we use the word =E2=80=9Ci=
nverter=E2=80=9D to describe a device that converts Direct Current (DC) ele=
ctricity, like from a battery or solar panel, into Alternating Current (AC)=
, like from a wall socket in an average home. It doesn=E2=80=99t actually t=
urn anything upside down. It uses power transistors, which are basically fa=
st, electronic switches to switch between one polarity and another polarity=
. We probably should have called them =E2=80=9Cpolarity reversers=E2=80=9D =
and not =E2=80=9Cinverters=E2=80=9D.<br>
<br>
In other words, you have two wires. One is positive. One is negative. =E2=
=80=9CSquare wave=E2=80=9D inverters switch which wire is which 120 times a=
second for 60 cycle AC current. Or modified sine wave inverters typically =
switch 480 times a second between off, 55 volts positive, 110 volts positiv=
e, 55 volts positive, off, 55 volts negative, 110 volts negative, 55 volts =
negative, and off.<br>
<br>
Or =E2=80=9CTrue Sine Wave=E2=80=9D inverters are actually modified sine wa=
ve inverters placed in line with large-mass 1:1 transformers, using the mag=
netic inertia of the iron core to smooth out the steps in the stepped waves=
to create smooth sine waves of AC current.<br>
<br>
So, in English, we used the word =E2=80=9Cinvert=E2=80=9D instead of =E2=80=
=9Creverse=E2=80=9D to describe what we=E2=80=99re doing to the electrical =
polarity of the wires, and Okrand takes the term =E2=80=9Cinvert=E2=80=9D a=
nd takes the =E2=80=9Cmake something upside down=E2=80=9D interpretation of=
the term, and here we have a poorly descriptive English term for the task =
at hand that has perhaps now become a poorly descriptive Klingon term, unle=
ss of course, a Klingon {yoymoHwI=E2=80=99} is something that actually turn=
s things upside down, and doesn=E2=80=99t have anything to do with converti=
ng DC to AC.<br>
<br>
Unless {yoymoH} actually has a broader scope of meaning, like =E2=80=9Cinve=
rt=E2=80=9D, and while both CAN mean =E2=80=9Ccause to be upside down=E2=80=
=9D, they also can refer to other kinds of reversals of state.<br>
<br>
[sigh]<br>
<br>
pItlh<br>
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Oct 9, 2015, at 10:58 AM, Steven Boozer <<a href=3D"mailto:sbooz=
er@uchicago.edu">sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Klingon Word of the Day for Friday, October 09, 2015<br>
>><br>
>> Klingon word: yoymoHwI'<br>
>> Part of speech: noun<br>
>> Definition: inverter<br>
>> Source:<br>
><br>
> Bill Willmerdinger, BabelCon 2 [4/07/1997]:<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 "I had needed some technobable once and created 'invert=
er' ...<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0which Marc [Okrand] said was perfect."<br>
><br>
> SEE ALSO:<br>
> yoy=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be upside down (v)<br>
> chong=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be vertical (v)<br>
> taH=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be at a negative angle (v)=
<br>
> lol=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be in an attitude (v)<br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Voragh<br>
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-=
hol</a><br>
<br>
<br>
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a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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