[101318] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country Klingon
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Fri Oct 9 12:51:18 2015
From: "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
To: "tlhIngan Hol mailing list" <tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cKUx8K2gXj1cnpctU=3GnQzNpq5cGu-eV9pp7otn+3g8A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 09:50:54 -0700
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Not really. You=E2=80=99re within wa=E2=80=99 netlh qelI=E2=80=99qam =
(~20,000 km) of every Klingon speaker there is, and thanks to the =
internet you can communicate with all of us within microseconds. It =
takes very little Klingon to have a conversation, and once you have that =
first conversation, you will have established a beachhead from which to =
conquer the language.
=20
Here=E2=80=99s the first thing I taught the beginners at =
qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99: how to say =E2=80=9CI am a ____=E2=80=9D. It is =
=E2=80=9C____ jIH.=E2=80=9D
jIH is a member of the chuvmey class of words. It acts as the prounoun =
=E2=80=9CI=E2=80=9D and also means =E2=80=9CI am.=E2=80=9D
tlhIngan jIH =3D I am a Klingon
=E2=80=98orwI=E2=80=99 jIH =3D I am a pilot
tera=E2=80=99ngan jIH =3D I am an Earther
Look up a word (has to be a noun) that you are, and tell me you are =
that.
Instead of looking at the Klingon language as a massive challenge you =
have to be someone special to meet, or psyche yourself up to begin, just =
learn one thing at a time until qaSta=E2=80=99! You have learned it.
=20
- Qov
From: HoD qunnoQ [mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com]=20
Sent: October 9, 2015 4:43
To: Robyn Stewart
Cc: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country =
Klingon Dialogue
=20
>Regardless, I will be delighted to converse with you in =
intelligibly-spoken Klingon, no matter what your spit range might be.
I would be delighted too,but unfortunately i'm light years away from =
being able to actually converse with someone in Klingon..
qunnoQ
=20
On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 1:16 AM, Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca> =
wrote:
Different languages _are_ spoken in different ways. Klingon does have to =
be spoken somewhat forcefully to distinguish between some of the raspy =
consonants. The rhythm of Italian helps to distinguish between doubled =
and single consonants. Russian declarative sentences are said with a =
kind of monotone, falling off at the end. If I were to speak Russian =
fluently and with the peppy little rises and falls of my native =
language, it wouldn=E2=80=99t sound right. I=E2=80=99m still weirded =
out by the instruction that it is incorrect to speak Cree with emotion =
in my voice, that the old western stereotype of the Indian guide saying =
=E2=80=9Call my family die=E2=80=9D in the same flat tone as =
=E2=80=9Csoon will rain=E2=80=9D is based in truth. I had a Korean =
student who knew English quite well, with reasonable pronunciation but =
was really hard to understand because he used the rhythm of his own =
language. When I tried to get him to put longer pauses in so an examiner =
could understand, he protested that he didn=E2=80=99t want to sound =
stupid. This was before YouTube, so I had to get him to take my word =
for it that great speeches in English show that its skilled speakers =
SLOW DOWN to sound smart.
Speaking Klingon with the fluent rhythm of English is probably as wrong =
as speaking it with the rhythm of Italian or Japanese. The =
=E2=80=98native=E2=80=99 Klingon speakers we hear tend to speak in a =
staccato manner, yet Azetbur manages to do it without overly chewing the =
scenery. Perhaps it=E2=80=99s because of her gender, or is an =
affectation. Regardless, I will be delighted to converse with you in =
intelligibly-spoken Klingon, no matter what your spit range might be.
=20
- Qov
=20
From: HoD qunnoQ [mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com]=20
Sent: October 8, 2015 13:06
To: Lieven
Cc: tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country =
Klingon Dialogue
=20
indeed.. if i ever managed to become proficient in Klingon,so as to =
speak it like i speak my native language,then this is the way i would =
like to speak it ; mildly and relaxed. i don't know why,but this manner =
of speaking appeals to me as more instinctive and natural.
qunnoQ
=20
On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 9:46 PM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 08.10.2015 um 17:54 schrieb HoD qunnoQ:
nuqneH
i made this observation...
That's a very good observation, and it's more important than what most =
people would believe it to be.
Indeed, I guess it's simply the actor who speaks a bit differently than =
others. Perhabs it was even done intentional, because Azetbur was sad?
Maybe it's because she's a woman. I don't know, compare to Valkris or =
Uhura (although she's not klingon, so maybe she doesn't count)
Anyhow, I love showing this scene to my students because it makes clear =
that one can speak klingon in a very natural way, as opposed to what =
many people believe is that you need to shout and bark klingon all the =
time.
Klingon can be spoken like a natural language, and Azetbur has proven =
this quite well in that scene.
--=20
Lieven L. Litaer
aka Quvar valer 'utlh
Grammarian of the KLI
http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher
http://www.klingonwiki.net
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
=20
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-CA link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Not really.=C2=A0 You=E2=80=99re within wa=E2=80=99 netlh =
qelI=E2=80=99qam (~20,000 km) of every Klingon speaker there is, and =
thanks to the internet you can communicate with all of us within =
microseconds. It takes very little Klingon to have a conversation, and =
once you have that first conversation, you will have established a =
beachhead from which to conquer the language.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Here=E2=80=99s the first thing I taught the beginners at =
qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99: how to say =E2=80=9CI am a ____=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 =
It is =E2=80=9C____ jIH.=E2=80=9D<br><br>jIH =C2=A0is a member of the =
chuvmey class of words. It acts as the prounoun =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=9D and =
also means =E2=80=9CI am.=E2=80=9D<br><br>tlhIngan jIH =3D I am a =
Klingon<br>=E2=80=98orwI=E2=80=99 jIH =3D I am a =
pilot<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>tera=E2=80=99ngan jIH =3D I am an Earther<br><br>Look up a word (has =
to be a noun) that you are, and tell me you are that.<br><br>Instead of =
looking at the Klingon language as a massive challenge you have to be =
someone special to meet, or psyche yourself up to begin, just learn one =
thing at a time until qaSta=E2=80=99! You have learned =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>- Qov<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> HoD qunnoQ =
[mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> October 9, 2015 =
4:43<br><b>To:</b> Robyn Stewart<br><b>Cc:</b> tlhIngan Hol mailing =
list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Star Trek VI The Undiscovered =
Country Klingon Dialogue<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Regardless, I will be delighted to converse with you in =
intelligibly-spoken Klingon, no matter what your spit range might =
be.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I would be delighted too,but unfortunately i'm light years away from =
being able to actually converse with someone in =
Klingon..</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>qunnoQ</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Fri, =
Oct 9, 2015 at 1:16 AM, Robyn Stewart <<a =
href=3D"mailto:robyn@flyingstart.ca" =
target=3D"_blank">robyn@flyingstart.ca</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Different languages _<i>are</i>_ spoken in different ways. Klingon =
does have to be spoken somewhat forcefully to distinguish between some =
of the raspy consonants. The rhythm of Italian helps to distinguish =
between doubled and single consonants. Russian declarative =
sentences are said with a kind of monotone, falling off at the =
end. If I were to speak Russian fluently and with the peppy little =
rises and falls of my native language, it wouldn=E2=80=99t sound =
right. I=E2=80=99m still weirded out by the instruction that it is =
incorrect to speak Cree with emotion in my voice, that the old western =
stereotype of the Indian guide saying =E2=80=9Call my family =
die=E2=80=9D in the same flat tone as =E2=80=9Csoon will rain=E2=80=9D =
is based in truth. I had a Korean student who knew English quite well, =
with reasonable pronunciation but was really hard to understand because =
he used the rhythm of his own language. When I tried to get him to put =
longer pauses in so an examiner could understand, he protested that he =
didn=E2=80=99t want to sound stupid. This was before YouTube, so I =
had to get him to take my word for it that great speeches in English =
show that its skilled speakers SLOW DOWN to sound =
smart.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Speaking Klingon with the fluent rhythm of English is probably as =
wrong as speaking it with the rhythm of Italian or Japanese. The =
=E2=80=98native=E2=80=99 Klingon speakers we hear tend to speak in a =
staccato manner, yet Azetbur manages to do it without overly chewing the =
scenery. Perhaps it=E2=80=99s because of her gender, or is an =
affectation. Regardless, I will be delighted to converse with you in =
intelligibly-spoken Klingon, no matter what your spit range might =
be.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>- Qov</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> HoD qunnoQ =
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> October 8, =
2015 13:06<br><b>To:</b> Lieven<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org" =
target=3D"_blank">tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org</a><br><b>Subject=
:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country Klingon =
Dialogue</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>indeed.. if i =
ever managed to become proficient in Klingon,so as to speak it like i =
speak my native language,then this is the way i would like to speak it ; =
mildly and relaxed. i don't know why,but this manner of speaking appeals =
to me as more instinctive and natural.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>qunnoQ<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Thu, Oct =
8, 2015 at 9:46 PM, Lieven <<a href=3D"mailto:levinius@gmx.de" =
target=3D"_blank">levinius@gmx.de</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Am =
08.10.2015 um 17:54 schrieb HoD qunnoQ:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>nuqneH<br><b=
r>i made this observation...<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>That's =
a very good observation, and it's more important than what most people =
would believe it to be.<br><br>Indeed, I guess it's simply the actor who =
speaks a bit differently than others. Perhabs it was even done =
intentional, because Azetbur was sad?<br>Maybe it's because she's a =
woman. I don't know, compare to Valkris or Uhura (although she's not =
klingon, so maybe she doesn't count)<br><br>Anyhow, I love showing this =
scene to my students because it makes clear that one can speak klingon =
in a very natural way, as opposed to what many people believe is that =
you need to shout and bark klingon all the time.<br><br>Klingon can be =
spoken like a natural language, and Azetbur has proven this quite well =
in that scene.<span style=3D'color:#888888'><br><br><br>-- <br>Lieven L. =
Litaer<br>aka Quvar valer 'utlh<br>Grammarian of the KLI<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher</a><br><a =
href=3D"http://www.klingonwiki.net" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.klingonwiki.net</a><br><br>_________________=
______________________________<br>Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" =
target=3D"_blank">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" =
target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a></=
span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>______________________________________=
_________<br>Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" =
target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><o=
:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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