[101281] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Canon: Associate Producer
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (HoD qunnoQ)
Sat Oct 3 15:23:32 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cJP9Feaa6q1nNhRBppfVjH-4NBi9x_822+jAg29gaUW_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 22:23:13 +0300
From: HoD qunnoQ <mihkoun@gmail.com>
To: "lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh" <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Cc: "tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org"
<tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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ok,now that i am thinking on the subject,more questions arise..
is there a rule for how many syllables is the allowed maximum,for a single
word ? for instance,can a single word be composed of 6 syllables ?
qunnoQ
On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:37 PM, HoD qunnoQ <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
> thank you ! everything is much clearer now !
>
> On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 6:59 PM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh <
> lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Rule #1: All Klingon syllables begin with a consonant (the glottal stop
>> is a consonant) followed by a vowel =E2=80=94 with the one exception bei=
ng some
>> instances of the noun suffix {-oy}.
>>
>> Rule #2: Some syllables end with that vowel, though most end with a
>> single consonant following the vowel.
>>
>> Rule #3: The only consonant clusters allowed at the end of a syllable ar=
e
>> {-rgh}, {-y=E2=80=99} and {-w=E2=80=99}.
>>
>> Maybe I=E2=80=99ve forgotten other consonant clusters, but I think that=
=E2=80=99s it.
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2015, at 11:37 AM, HoD qunnoQ <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> a fellow member of the list,pointed out earlier that a klingon word
>> cannot end with "nD". could someone point out what other word endings ar=
e
>> inappropriate/nonexistent in klingon ?
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 4:29 PM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv <
>> lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> As Okrand explained, English has no soft onset for vowel-first
>>> syllables, so, unless you speak Hawaiian like a native, you don't know =
what
>>> soft onset sounds like or feels like because you've never done it or he=
ard
>>> it during your language-formative years. It's like trying to explain "L=
"s
>>> and "R"s to someone who has exclusively spoken languages that lack them=
, or
>>> like explaining the difference between "pin" and "pen" to someone who
>>> speaks a dialect that pronounces them exactly alike. The difference is
>>> smaller to his ear than the difference between two different people say=
ing
>>> "pen", so he can't hear which of the two words anyone is saying.
>>>
>>> English starts vowel-first syllables with a glottal stop. Deal with it.
>>>
>>> My wife pronounces "where" and "wear" exactly alike and thinks my
>>> pronunciation of "where" is sufficiently alien to her to be no end of
>>> amusement. She pronounces "why" like the letter "Y". It leaves me wonde=
ring
>>> why she doesn't pronounce "who" as "woo". When I point that out, she
>>> becomes puzzled. She never thought about that until I pointed it out, t=
hen
>>> she just declares "That's just how it is," and avoids thinking about it
>>> further, since she prefers to think that her pronunciation is generally
>>> better than mine, when there is a difference.
>>>
>>> She also thinks that if a man says something in a forest and there is n=
o
>>> woman there to hear him, yes, he is still wrong.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> lojmIt tI'wI' nuv
>>>
>>> > On Oct 3, 2015, at 4:25 AM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I wrote:
>>> >> Because in Klingon, no word starts with a vowel. Even from a
>>> linguistic
>>> >> view, in most languages, words woth vowels start with a glottal stop=
.
>>> >> Try saying "I ate eight egg" without the stop. I will sound like
>>> >> "hi-yate-tate-hags".
>>> >
>>> >> Am 22.09.2015 um 09:32 schrieb Anthony Appleyard:
>>> >> In my pronunciation of English (I am in England), the separator in
>>> "I-ate-eight-eggs" is a slight hesitation, and not a true glottal stop =
with
>>> closure of the glottis.
>>> >
>>> > This may be correct from a linguistic point of view, but my
>>> explanation is the very closest approachment I can get to explain this =
to a
>>> non-linguist, which are most of the Klingon students.
>>> >
>>> > It's also possible that my example does not work exactly in english a=
s
>>> it does in German though.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Lieven L. Litaer
>>> > aka Quvar valer 'utlh
>>> > Grammarian of the KLI
>>> > http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher
>>> > http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Apostrophe
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>>> > Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>>> > http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>>> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>>> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>>
>>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>ok,now that i am thinking on the subject,more qu=
estions arise..<br><br></div>is there a rule for how many syllables is the =
allowed maximum,for a single word ? for instance,can a single word be compo=
sed of 6 syllables ?<br><br></div>qunnoQ<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra=
"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:37 PM, HoD qunnoQ=
<span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
"><div dir=3D"ltr">thank you ! everything is much clearer now !<br></div><d=
iv class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 6:59 PM, lojmIt tI'wI' =
nuv 'utlh <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail=
.com" target=3D"_blank">lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>Rul=
e #1: All Klingon syllables begin with a consonant (the glottal stop is a c=
onsonant) followed by a vowel =E2=80=94 with the one exception being some i=
nstances of the noun suffix {-oy}.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Rule #2: =
Some syllables end with that vowel, though most end with a single consonant=
following the vowel.</div><div><br></div><div>Rule #3: The only consonant =
clusters allowed at the end of a syllable are {-rgh}, {-y=E2=80=99} and {-w=
=E2=80=99}.</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe I=E2=80=99ve forgotten other con=
sonant clusters, but I think that=E2=80=99s it.</div><div><div><br><div><bl=
ockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Oct 3, 2015, at 11:37 AM, HoD qunnoQ <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>&g=
t; wrote:</div><br><div><div dir=3D"ltr">a fellow member of the list,pointe=
d out earlier that a klingon word cannot end with "nD". could som=
eone point out what other word endings are inappropriate/nonexistent in kli=
ngon ?<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">O=
n Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 4:29 PM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv <span dir=3D"ltr">=
<<a href=3D"mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lojmitti=
7wi7nuv@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">A=
s Okrand explained, English has no soft onset for vowel-first syllables, so=
, unless you speak Hawaiian like a native, you don't know what soft ons=
et sounds like or feels like because you've never done it or heard it d=
uring your language-formative years. It's like trying to explain "=
L"s and "R"s to someone who has exclusively spoken languages=
that lack them, or like explaining the difference between "pin" =
and "pen" to someone who speaks a dialect that pronounces them ex=
actly alike. The difference is smaller to his ear than the difference betwe=
en two different people saying "pen", so he can't hear which =
of the two words anyone is saying.<br>
<br>
English starts vowel-first syllables with a glottal stop. Deal with it.<br>
<br>
My wife pronounces "where" and "wear" exactly alike and=
thinks my pronunciation of "where" is sufficiently alien to her =
to be no end of amusement. She pronounces "why" like the letter &=
quot;Y". It leaves me wondering why she doesn't pronounce "wh=
o" as "woo". When I point that out, she becomes puzzled. She=
never thought about that until I pointed it out, then she just declares &q=
uot;That's just how it is," and avoids thinking about it further, =
since she prefers to think that her pronunciation is generally better than =
mine, when there is a difference.<br>
<br>
She also thinks that if a man says something in a forest and there is no wo=
man there to hear him, yes, he is still wrong.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<span><font color=3D"#888888">lojmIt tI'wI' nuv<br>
</font></span><div><div><br>
> On Oct 3, 2015, at 4:25 AM, Lieven <<a href=3D"mailto:levinius@gmx.=
de" target=3D"_blank">levinius@gmx.de</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I wrote:<br>
>> Because in Klingon, no word starts with a vowel. Even from a lingu=
istic<br>
>> view, in most languages, words woth vowels start with a glottal st=
op.<br>
>> Try saying "I ate eight egg" without the stop. I will so=
und like<br>
>> "hi-yate-tate-hags".<br>
><br>
>> Am 22.09.2015 um 09:32 schrieb Anthony Appleyard:<br>
>> In my pronunciation of English (I am in England), the separator in=
"I-ate-eight-eggs" is a slight hesitation, and not a true glotta=
l stop with closure of the glottis.<br>
><br>
> This may be correct from a linguistic point of view, but my explanatio=
n is the very closest approachment I can get to explain this to a non-lingu=
ist, which are most of the Klingon students.<br>
><br>
> It's also possible that my example does not work exactly in englis=
h as it does in German though.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Lieven L. Litaer<br>
> aka Quvar valer 'utlh<br>
> Grammarian of the KLI<br>
> <a href=3D"http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Apostrophe" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Apostrophe</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">Tlhingan-hol=
@kli.org</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-=
hol</a><br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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