[101280] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Canon: Associate Producer
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (HoD qunnoQ)
Sat Oct 3 14:38:36 2015
In-Reply-To: <CB01FCE1-6771-47AC-9C62-39B522EE7935@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 21:37:51 +0300
From: HoD qunnoQ <mihkoun@gmail.com>
To: "lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh" <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Cc: "tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org"
<tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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thank you ! everything is much clearer now !
On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 6:59 PM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh <
lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rule #1: All Klingon syllables begin with a consonant (the glottal stop i=
s
> a consonant) followed by a vowel =E2=80=94 with the one exception being s=
ome
> instances of the noun suffix {-oy}.
>
> Rule #2: Some syllables end with that vowel, though most end with a singl=
e
> consonant following the vowel.
>
> Rule #3: The only consonant clusters allowed at the end of a syllable are
> {-rgh}, {-y=E2=80=99} and {-w=E2=80=99}.
>
> Maybe I=E2=80=99ve forgotten other consonant clusters, but I think that=
=E2=80=99s it.
>
> On Oct 3, 2015, at 11:37 AM, HoD qunnoQ <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> a fellow member of the list,pointed out earlier that a klingon word canno=
t
> end with "nD". could someone point out what other word endings are
> inappropriate/nonexistent in klingon ?
>
> On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 4:29 PM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv <
> lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As Okrand explained, English has no soft onset for vowel-first syllables=
,
>> so, unless you speak Hawaiian like a native, you don't know what soft on=
set
>> sounds like or feels like because you've never done it or heard it durin=
g
>> your language-formative years. It's like trying to explain "L"s and "R"s=
to
>> someone who has exclusively spoken languages that lack them, or like
>> explaining the difference between "pin" and "pen" to someone who speaks =
a
>> dialect that pronounces them exactly alike. The difference is smaller to
>> his ear than the difference between two different people saying "pen", s=
o
>> he can't hear which of the two words anyone is saying.
>>
>> English starts vowel-first syllables with a glottal stop. Deal with it.
>>
>> My wife pronounces "where" and "wear" exactly alike and thinks my
>> pronunciation of "where" is sufficiently alien to her to be no end of
>> amusement. She pronounces "why" like the letter "Y". It leaves me wonder=
ing
>> why she doesn't pronounce "who" as "woo". When I point that out, she
>> becomes puzzled. She never thought about that until I pointed it out, th=
en
>> she just declares "That's just how it is," and avoids thinking about it
>> further, since she prefers to think that her pronunciation is generally
>> better than mine, when there is a difference.
>>
>> She also thinks that if a man says something in a forest and there is no
>> woman there to hear him, yes, he is still wrong.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>> lojmIt tI'wI' nuv
>>
>> > On Oct 3, 2015, at 4:25 AM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
>> >
>> > I wrote:
>> >> Because in Klingon, no word starts with a vowel. Even from a linguist=
ic
>> >> view, in most languages, words woth vowels start with a glottal stop.
>> >> Try saying "I ate eight egg" without the stop. I will sound like
>> >> "hi-yate-tate-hags".
>> >
>> >> Am 22.09.2015 um 09:32 schrieb Anthony Appleyard:
>> >> In my pronunciation of English (I am in England), the separator in
>> "I-ate-eight-eggs" is a slight hesitation, and not a true glottal stop w=
ith
>> closure of the glottis.
>> >
>> > This may be correct from a linguistic point of view, but my explanatio=
n
>> is the very closest approachment I can get to explain this to a
>> non-linguist, which are most of the Klingon students.
>> >
>> > It's also possible that my example does not work exactly in english as
>> it does in German though.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Lieven L. Litaer
>> > aka Quvar valer 'utlh
>> > Grammarian of the KLI
>> > http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher
>> > http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Apostrophe
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>> > Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>> > http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">thank you ! everything is much clearer now !<br></div><div=
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 a=
t 6:59 PM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lojmitti7wi7nuv@gm=
ail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=
=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>Rule #1: All Klingon syllables begin with a =
consonant (the glottal stop is a consonant) followed by a vowel =E2=80=94 w=
ith the one exception being some instances of the noun suffix {-oy}.=C2=A0<=
/div><div><br></div><div>Rule #2: Some syllables end with that vowel, thoug=
h most end with a single consonant following the vowel.</div><div><br></div=
><div>Rule #3: The only consonant clusters allowed at the end of a syllable=
are {-rgh}, {-y=E2=80=99} and {-w=E2=80=99}.</div><div><br></div><div>Mayb=
e I=E2=80=99ve forgotten other consonant clusters, but I think that=E2=80=
=99s it.</div><div><div class=3D"h5"><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><di=
v>On Oct 3, 2015, at 11:37 AM, HoD qunnoQ <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">a fellow member of the list,pointed out earlier that a kling=
on word cannot end with "nD". could someone point out what other =
word endings are inappropriate/nonexistent in klingon ?<br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 4:29=
PM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:lojm=
itti7wi7nuv@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com</a>><=
/span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">As Okrand explained, Englis=
h has no soft onset for vowel-first syllables, so, unless you speak Hawaiia=
n like a native, you don't know what soft onset sounds like or feels li=
ke because you've never done it or heard it during your language-format=
ive years. It's like trying to explain "L"s and "R"=
s to someone who has exclusively spoken languages that lack them, or like e=
xplaining the difference between "pin" and "pen" to som=
eone who speaks a dialect that pronounces them exactly alike. The differenc=
e is smaller to his ear than the difference between two different people sa=
ying "pen", so he can't hear which of the two words anyone is=
saying.<br>
<br>
English starts vowel-first syllables with a glottal stop. Deal with it.<br>
<br>
My wife pronounces "where" and "wear" exactly alike and=
thinks my pronunciation of "where" is sufficiently alien to her =
to be no end of amusement. She pronounces "why" like the letter &=
quot;Y". It leaves me wondering why she doesn't pronounce "wh=
o" as "woo". When I point that out, she becomes puzzled. She=
never thought about that until I pointed it out, then she just declares &q=
uot;That's just how it is," and avoids thinking about it further, =
since she prefers to think that her pronunciation is generally better than =
mine, when there is a difference.<br>
<br>
She also thinks that if a man says something in a forest and there is no wo=
man there to hear him, yes, he is still wrong.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<span><font color=3D"#888888">lojmIt tI'wI' nuv<br>
</font></span><div><div><br>
> On Oct 3, 2015, at 4:25 AM, Lieven <<a href=3D"mailto:levinius@gmx.=
de" target=3D"_blank">levinius@gmx.de</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I wrote:<br>
>> Because in Klingon, no word starts with a vowel. Even from a lingu=
istic<br>
>> view, in most languages, words woth vowels start with a glottal st=
op.<br>
>> Try saying "I ate eight egg" without the stop. I will so=
und like<br>
>> "hi-yate-tate-hags".<br>
><br>
>> Am 22.09.2015 um 09:32 schrieb Anthony Appleyard:<br>
>> In my pronunciation of English (I am in England), the separator in=
"I-ate-eight-eggs" is a slight hesitation, and not a true glotta=
l stop with closure of the glottis.<br>
><br>
> This may be correct from a linguistic point of view, but my explanatio=
n is the very closest approachment I can get to explain this to a non-lingu=
ist, which are most of the Klingon students.<br>
><br>
> It's also possible that my example does not work exactly in englis=
h as it does in German though.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Lieven L. Litaer<br>
> aka Quvar valer 'utlh<br>
> Grammarian of the KLI<br>
> <a href=3D"http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Apostrophe" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Apostrophe</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">Tlhingan-hol=
@kli.org</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-=
hol</a><br>
<br>
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org</a><br>
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rrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</=
a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><br>________________________=
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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