[101278] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Canon: Associate Producer
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh)
Sat Oct 3 11:59:58 2015
From: lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 11:59:41 -0400
To: "tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org"
<tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cKgH2HfnMOvrtOe5My_21BMctH_+Y1+Wc-=H-Q4fJEq0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Rule #1: All Klingon syllables begin with a consonant (the glottal stop =
is a consonant) followed by a vowel =E2=80=94 with the one exception =
being some instances of the noun suffix {-oy}.=20
Rule #2: Some syllables end with that vowel, though most end with a =
single consonant following the vowel.
Rule #3: The only consonant clusters allowed at the end of a syllable =
are {-rgh}, {-y=E2=80=99} and {-w=E2=80=99}.
Maybe I=E2=80=99ve forgotten other consonant clusters, but I think =
that=E2=80=99s it.
> On Oct 3, 2015, at 11:37 AM, HoD qunnoQ <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> a fellow member of the list,pointed out earlier that a klingon word =
cannot end with "nD". could someone point out what other word endings =
are inappropriate/nonexistent in klingon ?
>=20
> On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 4:29 PM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv =
<lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com <mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>> wrote:
> As Okrand explained, English has no soft onset for vowel-first =
syllables, so, unless you speak Hawaiian like a native, you don't know =
what soft onset sounds like or feels like because you've never done it =
or heard it during your language-formative years. It's like trying to =
explain "L"s and "R"s to someone who has exclusively spoken languages =
that lack them, or like explaining the difference between "pin" and =
"pen" to someone who speaks a dialect that pronounces them exactly =
alike. The difference is smaller to his ear than the difference between =
two different people saying "pen", so he can't hear which of the two =
words anyone is saying.
>=20
> English starts vowel-first syllables with a glottal stop. Deal with =
it.
>=20
> My wife pronounces "where" and "wear" exactly alike and thinks my =
pronunciation of "where" is sufficiently alien to her to be no end of =
amusement. She pronounces "why" like the letter "Y". It leaves me =
wondering why she doesn't pronounce "who" as "woo". When I point that =
out, she becomes puzzled. She never thought about that until I pointed =
it out, then she just declares "That's just how it is," and avoids =
thinking about it further, since she prefers to think that her =
pronunciation is generally better than mine, when there is a difference.
>=20
> She also thinks that if a man says something in a forest and there is =
no woman there to hear him, yes, he is still wrong.
>=20
> Sent from my iPad
> lojmIt tI'wI' nuv
>=20
> > On Oct 3, 2015, at 4:25 AM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de =
<mailto:levinius@gmx.de>> wrote:
> >
> > I wrote:
> >> Because in Klingon, no word starts with a vowel. Even from a =
linguistic
> >> view, in most languages, words woth vowels start with a glottal =
stop.
> >> Try saying "I ate eight egg" without the stop. I will sound like
> >> "hi-yate-tate-hags".
> >
> >> Am 22.09.2015 um 09:32 schrieb Anthony Appleyard:
> >> In my pronunciation of English (I am in England), the separator in =
"I-ate-eight-eggs" is a slight hesitation, and not a true glottal stop =
with closure of the glottis.
> >
> > This may be correct from a linguistic point of view, but my =
explanation is the very closest approachment I can get to explain this =
to a non-linguist, which are most of the Klingon students.
> >
> > It's also possible that my example does not work exactly in english =
as it does in German though.
> >
> > --
> > Lieven L. Litaer
> > aka Quvar valer 'utlh
> > Grammarian of the KLI
> > http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher =
<http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher>
> > http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Apostrophe =
<http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Apostrophe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> > Tlhingan-hol@kli.org <mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
> > http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol =
<http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol>
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org <mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol =
<http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol>
>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Rule #1: All Klingon syllables begin with a =
consonant (the glottal stop is a consonant) followed by a vowel =E2=80=94 =
with the one exception being some instances of the noun suffix =
{-oy}. </div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Rule #2: Some syllables end with that vowel, though most end =
with a single consonant following the vowel.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Rule #3: The only consonant clusters =
allowed at the end of a syllable are {-rgh}, {-y=E2=80=99} and =
{-w=E2=80=99}.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Maybe I=E2=80=99ve forgotten other consonant clusters, but I =
think that=E2=80=99s it.</div><br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Oct 3, 2015, at 11:37 AM, =
HoD qunnoQ <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">a fellow member of the list,pointed out earlier that a =
klingon word cannot end with "nD". could someone point out what other =
word endings are inappropriate/nonexistent in klingon ?<br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 4:29 PM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv =
<span dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><<a =
href=3D"mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">As Okrand explained, =
English has no soft onset for vowel-first syllables, so, unless you =
speak Hawaiian like a native, you don't know what soft onset sounds like =
or feels like because you've never done it or heard it during your =
language-formative years. It's like trying to explain "L"s and "R"s to =
someone who has exclusively spoken languages that lack them, or like =
explaining the difference between "pin" and "pen" to someone who speaks =
a dialect that pronounces them exactly alike. The difference is smaller =
to his ear than the difference between two different people saying =
"pen", so he can't hear which of the two words anyone is saying.<br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
English starts vowel-first syllables with a glottal stop. Deal with =
it.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
My wife pronounces "where" and "wear" exactly alike and thinks my =
pronunciation of "where" is sufficiently alien to her to be no end of =
amusement. She pronounces "why" like the letter "Y". It leaves me =
wondering why she doesn't pronounce "who" as "woo". When I point that =
out, she becomes puzzled. She never thought about that until I pointed =
it out, then she just declares "That's just how it is," and avoids =
thinking about it further, since she prefers to think that her =
pronunciation is generally better than mine, when there is a =
difference.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
She also thinks that if a man says something in a forest and there is no =
woman there to hear him, yes, he is still wrong.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Sent from my iPad<br class=3D"">
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888" class=3D"">lojmIt tI'wI' =
nuv<br class=3D"">
</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br class=3D"">
> On Oct 3, 2015, at 4:25 AM, Lieven <<a =
href=3D"mailto:levinius@gmx.de" class=3D"">levinius@gmx.de</a>> =
wrote:<br class=3D"">
><br class=3D"">
> I wrote:<br class=3D"">
>> Because in Klingon, no word starts with a vowel. Even from a =
linguistic<br class=3D"">
>> view, in most languages, words woth vowels start with a glottal =
stop.<br class=3D"">
>> Try saying "I ate eight egg" without the stop. I will sound =
like<br class=3D"">
>> "hi-yate-tate-hags".<br class=3D"">
><br class=3D"">
>> Am 22.09.2015 um 09:32 schrieb Anthony Appleyard:<br class=3D"">
>> In my pronunciation of English (I am in England), the separator =
in "I-ate-eight-eggs" is a slight hesitation, and not a true glottal =
stop with closure of the glottis.<br class=3D"">
><br class=3D"">
> This may be correct from a linguistic point of view, but my =
explanation is the very closest approachment I can get to explain this =
to a non-linguist, which are most of the Klingon students.<br class=3D"">
><br class=3D"">
> It's also possible that my example does not work exactly in english =
as it does in German though.<br class=3D"">
><br class=3D"">
> --<br class=3D"">
> Lieven L. Litaer<br class=3D"">
> aka Quvar valer 'utlh<br class=3D"">
> Grammarian of the KLI<br class=3D"">
> <a href=3D"http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher</a><br class=3D"">
> <a href=3D"http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Apostrophe" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Apostrophe</a><br class=3D"">
><br class=3D"">
> _______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br class=3D"">
> <a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br class=3D"">
> <a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br =
class=3D"">
</div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=
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