[101006] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qep'a' report
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Will Martin)
Thu Aug 6 11:28:22 2015
From: Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 11:28:01 -0400
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <69de3ef9f3954cec83796e384f2da66a@exdb03.ug.kth.se>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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I love it when I encounter a sentence that I know with deep certainty =
has never been uttered in the eternity preceding it.=20
=E2=80=9CThere is no {vogh} in paq=E2=80=99batlh=E2=80=9D is obviously =
one of those sentences.
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
> On Aug 6, 2015, at 9:57 AM, Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se> wrote:
>=20
>>> Are there any other uses of {vogh} in canon?
>>=20
>> AFAIK that's the only one - unless it's used in the paq'batlh. Would =
someone check? (I don't own a copy.)
>=20
> There is no {vogh} in paq'batlh.
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Boozer [mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu]=20
> Sent: den 6 augusti 2015 15:50
> To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qep'a' report
>=20
> Qov:
>>> - I asked if vogh could be used for a static locative, or was it=20
>>> only
>> pa' naDev and Dat that did not take -Daq. He said that he did not=20
>> think he had intended the list in TKD to be exclusive, and that vogh=20=
>> could probably be a locative all by itself, but that he would have to=20=
>> re-read it to be sure.
>=20
> TKD 27: It is worth noting at this point that the concepts expressed =
by the English adverbs here, there, and everywhere are expressed by =
nouns in Klingon: {naDev} hereabouts, {pa'} thereabouts, {Dat} =
everywhere. These words may perhaps be translated more literally as =
"area around here," "area over there," and "all places," respectively. =
Unlike other nouns, these three words are never followed by the locative =
suffix.
>=20
> (~mark): ... [{vogh}] takes {-Daq}. If it were like the others he'd =
have said, since he was presenting a list of exceptions.
>=20
> (SuStel): Since TKD is very clear that there are three nouns which do =
this, and here they are, {vogh} must take {-Daq}. It does seem like one =
of these nouns, but so far we have no way to say that it is.
>=20
> (charghwI'): I would tend to use {vogh} like {Dat}, {naDev} and =
{pa'}. It seems different from {logh} which describes an environment as =
much as a location. The environment has a location, like forest, but if =
you are referring to the location of that environment, you use {-Daq} in =
most settings. {vogh}, on the other hand, has no characteristic except =
location (or lack of it).
>=20
> Well, now we finally know!
>=20
> De'vID:=20
>> The only instance {vogh} I recall is {vogh vISuch vIneH} from=20
>> Conversational Klingon, from which we can't infer anything.
>=20
> vogh vISuch vIneH
> I want to visit someplace. CK
>=20
>> Are there any other uses of {vogh} in canon?
>=20
> AFAIK that's the only one - unless it's used in the paq'batlh. Would =
someone check? (I don't own a copy.)
>=20
>=20
> --
> Voragh
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">I love it when I encounter a sentence that I =
know with deep certainty has never been uttered in the eternity =
preceding it. </div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">=E2=80=9CThere is no {vogh} in paq=E2=80=99batlh=E2=80=9D is =
obviously one of those sentences.</div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class=3D"">pItlh</div><div =
class=3D"">lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></span><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Aug 6, 2015, at 9:57 AM, Felix Malmenbeck <<a =
href=3D"mailto:felixm@kth.se" class=3D"">felixm@kth.se</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">Are there any other uses of {vogh} in canon?<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">AFAIK that's the only one - =
unless it's used in the paq'batlh. Would someone check? (I =
don't own a copy.)<br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">There is no =
{vogh} in paq'batlh.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">-----Original =
Message-----<br class=3D"">From: Steven Boozer [<a =
href=3D"mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu" =
class=3D"">mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>] <br class=3D"">Sent: den 6 =
augusti 2015 15:50<br class=3D"">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org" =
class=3D"">tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br class=3D"">Subject: Re: =
[Tlhingan-hol] qep'a' report<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Qov:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">- I asked if vogh could be used for a static locative, or was =
it <br class=3D"">only<br class=3D""></blockquote>pa' naDev and Dat that =
did not take -Daq. He said that he did not <br class=3D"">think he had =
intended the list in TKD to be exclusive, and that vogh <br =
class=3D"">could probably be a locative all by itself, but that he would =
have to <br class=3D"">re-read it to be sure.<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">TKD 27: It is worth noting =
at this point that the concepts expressed by the English adverbs here, =
there, and everywhere are expressed by nouns in Klingon: {naDev} =
hereabouts, {pa'} thereabouts, {Dat} everywhere. These words may perhaps =
be translated more literally as "area around here," "area over there," =
and "all places," respectively. Unlike other nouns, these three words =
are never followed by the locative suffix.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">(~mark): ... [{vogh}] takes {-Daq}. If it were like the =
others he'd have said, since he was presenting a list of exceptions.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">(SuStel): Since TKD is very clear that =
there are three nouns which do this, and here they are, {vogh} must take =
{-Daq}. It does seem like one of these nouns, but so far we have no way =
to say that it is.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">(charghwI'): I =
would tend to use {vogh} like {Dat}, {naDev} and {pa'}. It seems =
different from {logh} which describes an environment as much as a =
location. The environment has a location, like forest, but if you are =
referring to the location of that environment, you use {-Daq} in most =
settings. {vogh}, on the other hand, has no characteristic except =
location (or lack of it).<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Well, now we =
finally know!<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">De'vID: <br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">The only instance {vogh} =
I recall is {vogh vISuch vIneH} from <br class=3D"">Conversational =
Klingon, from which we can't infer anything.<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D""> vogh vISuch vIneH<br =
class=3D""> I want to visit someplace. CK<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">Are there any other uses =
of {vogh} in canon?<br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">AFAIK =
that's the only one - unless it's used in the paq'batlh. Would =
someone check? (I don't own a copy.)<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">--<br class=3D"">Voragh<br class=3D"">Ca'Non =
Master of the Klingons<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br =
class=3D"">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol<br =
class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br=
class=3D"">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=
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