[100335] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] no' Hol & Paramount Hol in Bing
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Thu Mar 5 23:45:18 2015
From: "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
To: "'Klingon language email discussion forum'" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <1425615296373.53951@kth.se>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 20:44:51 -0800
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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I understand the desire to exclude them, but there are people out there for
whom the only Klingon they know is what was on the episodes. I don't want
them to put what they know into the Bing translator and get nothing. That's
not the way to lead them to the light. Even if the phrases haven't been
individually canonized, the conceit in KGT that the ones that are mentioned
are famous lines from old operas makes it clear that we're supposed to run
with it. I'm perfectly happy accepting these phrases as meaning what they
say it means but only as a fossilized expression that may be no' Hol or a
phrase taken whole from a foreign language.
And you have to love "I am theragen dare" and "I am mother you are honour."
I can even follow the logic on "wIj Doq". They look up "my" and "blood" and
get wIj 'Iw. They don't want their actors saying "we jew" or "wedge eew" so
they look for something else and settle on "red".
- Qov
From: Felix Malmenbeck [mailto:felixm@kth.se]
Sent: March 5, 2015 20:15
To: ghunchu'wI'; Klingon language email discussion forum
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] no' Hol & Paramount Hol in Bing
Fortunately, I don't believe <qab jIH ngIl> and <SoS jIH batlh SoH> have
ever been canonized, so there's no need to add/keepthem at all.
Is <jIH Doq> canon? I know it's from TNG, but I can't recall it being
mentioned in any works by Okrand.
It might be worth adding <taH pagh taHbe'> as "To be or not to be", since
that "translation" only makes sense as a fixed phrase.
_____
From: ghunchu'wI' <qunchuy@alcaco.net>
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2015 4:39:44 AM
To: Klingon language email discussion forum
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] no' Hol & Paramount Hol in Bing
On Mar 5, 2015, at 8:11 PM, "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca> wrote:
... there exist several fixed expressions that probably SHOULD be in the
lexicon. The Bing team has a way to mark these as non-productive, like
English "lest we forget" and "if it ain't broke don't fix it." Help me
compile a list of such expressions.
Qab jIH ngIl ("quab jee nageel") "face me if you dare" from the SonchIy
ritual [TNG "Reunion"]
SoS jIH batlh SoH ("so's jee bat-leth so") "Mother, I honor you" from the
ruStay [TNG "The Bonding"]
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-CA link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I understand the desire to exclude them, but there are people out =
there for whom the only Klingon they know is what was on the episodes. I =
don’t want them to put what they know into the Bing translator and =
get nothing. That’s not the way to lead them to the light. =
Even if the phrases haven’t been individually canonized, the =
conceit in KGT that the ones that are mentioned are famous lines from =
old operas makes it clear that we’re supposed to run with it. =
I’m perfectly happy accepting these phrases as meaning what they =
say it means but only as a fossilized expression that may be no’ =
Hol or a phrase taken whole from a foreign language. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>And you have to love “I am theragen dare” and “I am =
mother you are honour.”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I can even follow the logic on “wIj Doq”. They look up =
“my” and “blood” and get wIj ‘Iw. They =
don’t want their actors saying “we jew” or =
“wedge eew” so they look for something else and settle =
on “red”.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>- Qov<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Felix =
Malmenbeck [mailto:felixm@kth.se] <br><b>Sent:</b> March 5, 2015 =
20:15<br><b>To:</b> ghunchu'wI'; Klingon language email discussion =
forum<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] no' Hol & Paramount Hol =
in Bing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Fortunately, =
I don't believe «qab jIH ngIl» and «SoS jIH batlh =
SoH» have ever been canonized, so there's no need to add/keepthem =
at all.<br><br>Is «jIH Doq» canon? I know it's from TNG, but =
I can't recall it being mentioned in any works by Okrand.<br><br>It =
might be worth adding «taH pagh taHbe'» as "To be or =
not to be", since that "translation" only makes sense as =
a fixed phrase.<o:p></o:p></p><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"98%" =
align=3Dcenter></div><div id=3DdivRplyFwdMsg><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
> ghunchu'wI' <<a =
href=3D"mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net">qunchuy@alcaco.net</a>><br><b>Sent:=
</b> Friday, March 6, 2015 4:39:44 AM<br><b>To:</b> Klingon language =
email discussion forum<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] no' Hol =
& Paramount Hol in Bing</span> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On Mar 5, 2015, at 8:11 PM, "Robyn Stewart" =
<<a href=3D"mailto:robyn@flyingstart.ca">robyn@flyingstart.ca</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>... there exist =
several</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>fixed</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>expressions that probably =
SHOULD be in the lexicon. The Bing team has a way to mark these as =
non-productive, like English</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>“lest we =
forget” and “if it ain’t broke don’t fix =
it.” Help me compile a list of</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>such =
expressions. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Qab jIH =
ngIl ("quab jee nageel") "face me if you dare" from =
the SonchIy ritual [TNG "Reunion"]<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>SoS jIH batlh SoH ("so's jee bat-leth so") =
"Mother, I honor you" from the ruStay [TNG "The =
Bonding"]<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>
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