[100290] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] FW: Nonsense words
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Wed Feb 25 09:42:17 2015
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 14:42:03 +0000
In-Reply-To: <CD3FFE4E-79A3-4642-BE39-9622FC090A65@gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Qov, another Klingon month name from the episodes you might want to check i=
s *Nay'Poq*:
Kohlar asked the pregnant B'Elanna, "Did you conceive during
the holy month of *Nay'Poq*?" (VOY "Prophecy"; why this month
is holy was not explained)
Also *Lo'Bral*, *Soo'jen*, *Merruthj* and *Xan'lahr* are other months "in t=
he Year of Kahless" sequence from Michael A. Martin & Andy Mangels' Excelsi=
or: Forged in Fire [2007].
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
On Feb 24, 2015, at 10:56 PM, Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca<mailto:ro=
byn@flyingstart.ca>> wrote:
Perfect. That's just what I was hoping: it's the name of a *particular* mon=
th-in a particular culture on a particular planet. So I don't have to dispr=
ove it.
Now if everyone, of any ability, would write me a few Klingon sentences wh=
ose English translation contains the word "month" or "season" we can retrai=
n it. Don't stretch yourself. Write within your ability. E-mail to me, incl=
ude the English translation and then I will post the list for us to typo ch=
eck.
- Qov
From: Felix Malmenbeck [mailto:felixm@kth.se]
Sent: February 24, 2015 15:19
> Maktag
>maqtagh: a klingon month or season (n) [From "New Ground" (TNG). At least =
43 days long.]
>Is anyone familiar enough with this TNG novel to know whether
> maqtagh was supposed to be a particular season, analogous
> perhaps to "monsoon" or "spring" or a generic word for a
> seasonal time period?
Not a novel, actually, but an episode.
Alexander Rozhenko, son of Worf, was born on the 43rd day of Maktag. It's n=
ot specified if it's a month or a season.
The book Excelsior: Forged in Fire treats it as a month.
(It also treats Klingon years as being precisely the same length as Earth y=
ears, which flies in the face of Star Trek canon.)
________________________________
From: Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca<mailto:robyn@flyingstart.ca>>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 00:07
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] FW: Nonsense words
From a conversation with my primary contact on the Microsoft Bing team.
---
I found this online (http://www.angelfire.com/md/startrekkie1701/klindic.ht=
ml -- careful, this site seems weird and may contain malware)
Maktag
maqtagh: a klingon month or season (n) [From "New Ground" (TNG). At least 4=
3 days long.]
Somehow the wrong spelling of Maktag made it into a training text file, whe=
re I can see
maqtagh --> month
maqtagh --> season
i.e. possibly someone originally found the site above and added words / sen=
tences to one of the training files.
And so the engine learned that.
We have to remove and retrain.
We have an efficient way to change bad translation, but not a good way to '=
remove' words or phrases altogether..
..what I can do easily (we do these once a week) is to replace the wrong tr=
anslation from English to Klingon.
i.e. "month" and "season" right now translate to "maqtagh".. what would be =
a better translation for "season"?
---
Some well-meaning individual has managed to add Angelfire to our learning f=
iles, and like glitter in the carpet, it will be everywhere unless we can p=
ick it out grain by grain. Is anyone familiar enough with this TNG novel t=
o know whether maqtagh was supposed to be a particular season, analogous pe=
rhaps to "monsoon" or "spring" or a generic word for a seasonal time period=
?
- Qov
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@kli.org<mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Qov, another Klingon month =
name from the episodes you might want to check is *<b>Nay’Poq</b>*:<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Courier">Kohlar asked the pregnant=
B'Elanna, "Did you conceive d</span><span style=3D"font-family:"=
Courier New"">uring<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
the holy month of *<b><i>Nay'Poq</i></b><i>*</i>?" (VOY "Pr=
ophecy"; why this month<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
is holy was not explained)<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">Also *<b><i>Lo'B=
ral</i></b><i>*, *<b>Soo'jen</b>*, *<b>Merruthj</b>*
</i>and *<b><i>Xan'lahr</i></b><i>*</i> are other months "in the Year =
of Kahless" sequence from Michael A. Martin & Andy Mangels'
<i>Excelsior: Forged in Fire </i>[2007].<br>
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",&quo=
t;sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:black">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:black">Voragh<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:black">Ca'Non Master of the Klingo=
ns<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Feb 24, 2015, at 10:56 PM, Robyn Stewart <<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:robyn@flyingstart.ca">robyn@flyingstart.ca</a>> wrote:<o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">Perfect. That’s just what I was hoping: it’s the name of a *<=
b>particular</b>* month—in a particular culture on a particular plane=
t.
So I don’t have to disprove it.<br>
<br>
Now if everyone, of any ability, would write me a few Klingon sentences &nb=
sp;whose English translation contains the word “month” or ̶=
0;season” we can retrain it. Don’t stretch yourself. Write with=
in your ability. E-mail to me, include the English translation and
then I will post the list for us to typo check.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">- Qov</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-se=
rif"">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
"> </span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tah=
oma","sans-serif"">Felix
Malmenbeck [<a href=3D"mailto:felixm@kth.se">mailto:felixm@kth.se</a>]<spa=
n class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span>February 24,=
2015 15:19</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">> Maktag<span class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">>maqtagh: a klingon month or season (n) [From "New Ground" (=
TNG). At least 43 days long.]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">>Is anyone f=
amiliar enough with this TNG novel to know whether</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">> maqtagh wa=
s supposed to be a particular season, analogous</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">> perhaps to=
“monsoon” or “spring” or a generic word for a</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">> seasonal t=
ime period?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Not a novel, actually, but an=
episode.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Alexander Rozhenko, son of Wo=
rf, was born on the 43rd day of Maktag. It's not specified if it's a month =
or a season.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The book Excelsior: Forged in=
Fire treats it as a month.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif"">(It also treats Klingon years=
as being precisely the same length as Earth years, which flies in the face=
of Star Trek canon.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center;backgr=
ound:white">
<span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#212121">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"98%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</sp=
an></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif"">Robyn
Stewart <<a href=3D"mailto:robyn@flyingstart.ca"><span style=3D"color:#=
954F72">robyn@flyingstart.ca</span></a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, F=
ebruary 25, 2015 00:07<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span>tlhIngan Hol m=
ailing list<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span>[Tlhingan=
-hol] FW: Nonsense words</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#212121"> </span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">From a conversation with my primary contact on the Microsoft Bing team.<s=
pan class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">---</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">I found this online (<a href=3D"http://www.angelfire.com/md/startrekkie17=
01/klindic.html"><span style=3D"color:#954F72">http://www.angelfire.com/md/=
startrekkie1701/klindic.html</span></a><span class=3D"apple-converted-space=
"> </span>--
careful, this site seems weird and may contain malware)</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">Maktag<span class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">maqtagh: a klingon month or season (n) [From "New Ground" (TNG)=
. At least 43 days long.]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">Somehow the wrong spelling of Maktag made it into a training text file, w=
here I can see</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">maqtagh =
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span=
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">=E0</span><=
span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D"> &=
nbsp;
month</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">maqtagh =
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span=
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">=E0</span><=
span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D"> &=
nbsp;
season</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">i.e. possibly someone originally found the site above and added words / s=
entences to one of the training files.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">And so the engine learned that.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">We have to remove and retrain.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">We have an efficient way to change bad translation, but not a good way to=
‘remove’ words or phrases altogether..<span class=3D"apple-con=
verted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">..what I can do easily (we do these once a week) is to replace the wrong =
translation from English to Klingon.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">i.e. “month” and “season” right now translate to =
“maqtagh”.. what would be a better translation for “seaso=
n”?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri=
f";color:#1F497D">---<br>
</span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Some well-meaning individual has manag=
ed to add Angelfire to our learning files, and like glitter in the carpet, =
it will be everywhere unless we can pick it out grain by grain. Is an=
yone familiar enough with this TNG novel
to know whether maqtagh was supposed to be a particular season, analogous =
perhaps to “monsoon” or “spring” or a generic word =
for a seasonal time period? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
">- Qov</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Hel=
vetica","sans-serif";background:white">_____________________=
__________________________</span><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family=
:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><br>
<span style=3D"background:white">Tlhingan-hol mailing list</span><br>
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tinfo/tlhingan-hol">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a></=
span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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