[99680] in RedHat Linux List
Linux and Microsoft - honesty vs. ... you'll see ;-((
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (stefmit@ix.netcom.com)
Mon Nov 16 14:57:38 1998
From: stefmit@ix.netcom.com
To: redhat-list@redhat.com
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:54:52 -0500
Resent-From: redhat-list@redhat.com
Reply-To: redhat-list@redhat.com
<color><param>0100,0100,0100</param> The following thread appeared on the WINNT list, starting in October, and
culminating today, with a thorough explanation of the title in my message:
Message 1 (original):
"Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:16:17 +0200
Reply-To: troos@shoprite.co.za
Sender: Windows NT Discussion List <<WINNT-
L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From: Tom Roos <<troos@SHOPRITE.CO.ZA>
Organization: Shoprite Checkers (Pty) Ltd
Subject: Does this make sense?
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Hi
I found this website (http://www.unix-vs-nt.org/kirch/). Reading this
report makes me worry. I this guy talking sense or is this a load of
bull....
Regards
Tom"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the replies came from a gentleman who wrote the followings:
"Tom. The report seems to have some bias, but not an error in the facts
presented. What I don't see is why you are worried? Because we will have
something else to worry about? That is a given in the business. If it wasn't we
would all still be using C/PM.
What worries me is the latest MS moves. For the past 25 years, under the
skin, I used to bleed blue. Now I am concerned about Redmond. Redmond and I
had a permanent falling out last week. Linux is where I am running to. I'm not
trashing my MS oriented work (MCSE/MCT), but I am learning an alternative to
cover my own hide.
Let me know if you want the details of the divorce.
Tcat"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Due to a high number of requests from people who would have liked to hear why
"Tcat" mentioned a "divorce" between Microsoft and himself, here is the whole
story, posted by "Tcat" on the same list today:
"</color><FontFamily><param>Courier New</param><smaller>Wow. I have gotten a huge number of emails within moments, asking
the details. Due to the large number of requests in so short a
time, I am sending it to the list in general. Delete now if you are
not interested.
Thanks.
I responded to Andrew, who had the first request in for the data.
Here is what I told him, along with what started the whole mess.
Tcat
Hi Andrew! I appreciate how busy you are, so I will keep this
simple (with a forward or two to flush things out).
<FontFamily><param>Arial</param><bigger>The short story is I founded the Seattle Chapter of the NPA, some time ago. I
have always held the meeting in a MS building in Bellevue. Last Thursday, I had
Novell come in to talk about their NT products. I presume you know that Novell a
few years ago made the decision to spend 50% of their R&D on enhancing NT,
and they are a Microsoft Advanced Solution something or other, provider.
<FontFamily><param>Courier New</param><smaller>Before the meeting, I was accused by an MS employee of "Spitting in
their eye", along with other equally angry remarks. The meeting
went very well.
Darrell, the local Novell Rep. was very professional and
informative. To be honest, it was the clearest demonstration I have
Ever seen on what a Directory Service can do for me. It had me
going through my inventory of computers to determine what I can put
together for a Active Directory based DC server (the three Win 2000
systems here are member server based).
Well I didn't get a chance to even pull one of P Pro chips from an
SMP based Win 2000 box, before I got a email from MS telling me the
NPA was no longer welcome at MS! I was quite surprised as the
vendor was touting an NT product!
This scares me, in a very serious way. It tells me that a MS
partner serves as a partner only when it is in the interests of MS.
So yo may understand the timeline, the meeting was Thursday night,
and the email came Friday morning. Since then, I have spoken with
several of my buddies who are also MCSE's, MCT's and/or MCSD's. It
turns out they we're all aware of this behavior in general, and
basically saw me as a Luditte at best, completely ignorant at
worst. Further, they are all studying Red Hat, and why wasn't I
up to Version 5.2?
I guess living in Seattle area for 25 years and growing up with MS,
I always considered it the unifying force in the market. I guess I
had blinders on.
Well, they slapped those things off my face. My teaching gigs next
year will be focused on A+ and N+, with little to no MS based
teaching. That will give me the time I need to really get up on Red
Hat.
This email is getting on the long side, so I will close and forward
the emails that flush this out. I am not attempting to use a
bellows on the fire, and I am not going to protect MS either. Just
the facts.
Thanks!
Tcat
Next, the email I got, with my response on top. Yes, it does reveal
my bias toward MS.
Not a problem with me.
And the presenter was there as a MS Advanced Development Partner, or
whatever you call it.
The previous folks understood that I used the NPA to promote BOPA,
and to date got over 50 people to at least one BOPA meeting.
While the meeting costs have not been killer each month, it has
been out of my pocket, as I have not submitted reciepts, as I felt
the NPA (National was a little too Netware focused for my
tastes)even though MS is a sponser.
In short, it has been a drain of time/money/energy for me. I didn't
mind because it has been worth it to get folks up and going. Since
MS no longer appricates what the total result has been, I will drop
my efforts and let the chapter disband.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: Jennifer Kern [<underline><color><param>0000,8000,0000</param>mailto:jennik@MICROSOFT.com]
</underline></color>Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 9:17 AM
To: <underline><color><param>0000,8000,0000</param>'tcat@usa.net'
</underline></color>Subject: Microsoft briefing center
Hi Tim
I am emailing to inform you that as of today, the Microsoft
facilities are no longer available for your user group meetings.
We have MANY request from groups to use our facility for MS-only
purposes -- and over the past few months, it has been called to my
attention that you have had 2 groups in recently discuss products
that compete with Microsoft.
Best wishes with your group!
ps -- I would have called you, but the 2 phone #'s you provided me
with for contact information are not active.
Jennifer Kern
Microsoft Pacific Northwest Marketing
Phone: 425/705-1875
Fax: 425/705-1831
For local event and seminar information, please visit us at:
www.microsoft.com/pacwest/events
Finally, what I told the Seattle chapter of the NPA, via our list
serve.
-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 1998 11:19 AM
To: Npa-Seattle (E-mail)
Subject: absolute power.....
Greetings to all.
It is my assumption that all have heard the old saw about absolute
power corrupting absolutely.
To me, this is in clear evidence.
Pete came and saw me in person last night, telling me of his
attempts to salvage the Seattle NPA. Apparently, one of the items
sticking in the craw out at PacWest is my article about Small
Business Server, in the July issue of Microsoft Certified
Professional magazine. It appears they think I was unkind toward
SBS in that issue.
As the author, bottom line, I was too kind. I didn't relate all the
challenges, only the ones that we're repeatable by anybody,
attempting to setup a SBS server in Seattle with MS approved ISP's,
for example.
Pete called me a walking MS billboard. OK. I take that.
I remember the days of C/PM, M/PM, various unstable versions of
UNIX, all of them cranky, at best. Life got much simpler when MS
took over the world with DOS. So, I guess, yes, I was a walking
billboard for MS.
Steward Alsop in InfoWorld, a few years ago, called MS the
benevolent dictator.
With John Kitsmiller telling me that having Novell come to the
PacWest briefing center to talk about their NT product is "a spit
in their eye", and creating the cancellation of the room, I think
it is safe to say that I must agree with a later article from Mr.
Alsop and drop the word benevolent, from dictator. It would seem to
lend credence to the question about the wisdom of partnering with
MS, as Novell has.
Readers of this light list also know that the NPA had sent an email
update about the Seattle chapter, and saw my response. I have not
heard from the NPA concerning this matter. I can only guess that
they are either thinking about this, or don't wish to annoy a
corporate sponsor like MS.
The bottom line for me is while I never believed MS was a perfect
company, it did more for computing, and our planet than any other
company in my 25 years of being a computer professional. I was
proud to be a member of the MS community, without holding one
dollar of stock, or taking money from MS.
With behavior like this, I can no longer be living my life studying
different beta products or preaching the gospel, the book of Bill.
IF there is to be a December meeting, it will be the last one I
will be hosting. IF this meeting happens, I will hold the meeting,
as disused, on an overview of the upcoming N+ certification test.
<color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>From here, I feel it is in my best interests to devote more time to
Linux. </color>This is because history has many lessons on what happens to
dictators. I like teaching, and don't want to be a teacher with no
students. As history has shown, a dictators life in a society which
believes it wants to be free, is a short life indeed.
Forces are indeed marshalling for Linux. You can find me now on a
mailing list for a Linux certification. This has been determined as
critical to getting Linux out of the corporate closet. That list is:
<underline><color><param>0000,8000,0000</param>linux-cert@linuxcare.com
</underline></color>Seattle has a Linux User Group (LUG) which I will become a regular
attendee of starting with the December meeting. In fact, I have re-
arranged my flight back from the N+ conference to be back in
Seattle for the December meeting.
I have put contact information at the bottom of this email. If you
are coming to the meeting, and you don't know me, just look for the
red haired fellow, wearing a Red Hat Cap. It was a gift from Bob
Young, the President of Red Hat, to me. I'll be wearing it proudly.
Finally, about the NPA itself. My decision on my membership renewal
will depend on the response or lack of from the NPA itself. If I
hear nothing from HQ on the matter, that will be my response on
renewal. I don't believe Linux is even on their radar screen.
Please forgive this longish email. My only defense is that I feel I
must explain a course change when I have been on the same road for
25 years.
Best to all of you, and keep in touch. It has been an honor to work
with each of you.
Tcat (Tim Catura-Houser)
<underline><color><param>0000,8000,0000</param>tcat@tcat.net
</underline></color>Puget Sound Linux User's Group
Meeting time and location
Date: December 5, 1998
Time: 1:00 PM (with the bootfest <<workshop.html> starting at 10am)
Location:
Seattle Public Utility (SPU) (NEW Location)
2700 Airport Way South
Seattle, WA
(.5 Miles North of I-5 & West Seattle Bridge/Fwy/Hwy Interchange)
Changes at USA.NET are preventing me from getting list mail.
Therefore, I am requesting all change my address from <underline><color><param>0000,8000,0000</param>Tcat@usa.net</underline></color>
to
<underline><color><param>0000,8000,0000</param>Tcat@Tcat.net</underline></color> Thank you."
<color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>---------------------------------------------------------------
</color><FontFamily><param>Arial</param><bigger> I apologize for the lengthy message, but I thought of this being a perfect
example on where Microsoft goes, and how professionals start opening an eye to
something that will prove, in the long run, to be the honest and - hopefully -
business oriented choice to make (i.e. Linux).
Cheers,
Stefan
P.S. Being able to find all these on the WINNT-L archives, I didn't think being
necessary to ask the authors' permissions to re-post something already readily
available on the Net. If I made a mistake by doing so, I did it with no personal
interest, and I apologize if found at fault. For those of you willing to check the
whole thread, point your browser to:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?S1=winnt-l
and do a search for <<Does this make sense?>, with the substring option enabled.
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