[23637] in APO-L
Re: [APO-L] Logo Issue, and side bar
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Buddha Buck)
Fri Mar 28 11:06:20 2003
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 11:05:54 -0500
Reply-To: Buddha Buck <bmbuck@14850.com>
From: Buddha Buck <bmbuck@14850.com>
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <004601c2f541$09d55350$9dedaf80@famtree>
Michael Ryan Gallagher wrote:
> Active Brothers changing something...one thing I see as a potential problem
> is that things could change every Convention as a new mix of Actives are
> Members and a new mix of delegates some with even changed opinions from
> previous points in time than they had before in their APO or life
> experience...
I fail to see the problem, potential or otherwise.
At National Conventions, everything is potentially up for change; the
active delegates could decide unanimously that rituals should, wherever
possible, be held in public locations, or that it is allowed and
recommended for rituals to be held in the nude, or that the purpose of
the Fraternity is to seek, through peaceful and legal means, the
replacement of the President of the United States as Head of State with
a hereditary monarch. Are any of these likely? No.
Every Convention has had a new mix of Actives and delegates. Given that
the average "active" lifetime for a Brother is three semesters, and that
the averate time between conventions is four semesters, the number of
delegates who get to serve at two or more conventions is likely very low.
Every active's opinions change over time with life experience. Our
actives are college students, a time of their life when they are
expected to be gaining lots of new experiences, new knowledge, new
wisdom. If someone went through four years of college and didn't have
at least some of their opinions change, I'd be very shocked.
So.... since this is a Fraternity of Actives, a Faternity of Students,
first and foremost... where is the problem with a changing mix of
students, a changing mix of opinions?
>
> Michael Gallagher
> Zeta Sigma Historian & Webmaster
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" <Randolph.Finder@ngb.army.mil>
> To: <APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [APO-L] Logo Issue, and side bar
>
>
>
>>>Here are what I see, from a heraldic viewpoint, the
>>>differences between
>>>(A) the original arms on the National Charter that Randy linked to in
>>>his previous post, (B) the current arms as I see then today on the
>>>National ebsite, and (c) the proposed "new logo":
>>>
>>>Between (A) and (B): 1) Three fleur-de-lis are changed to three
>>>torches. 2) (uncertain) The shape of the remaining
>>>fleur-de-lis changed
>>>to be in sync with the BSA's usage. I don't know offhand if this is
>>>significant. Does anyone know if the description of that element
>>>changed in the ritual books when this change happened?
>>
>>No, but if anyone does have a handy copy of any of the pre-1932 ritual
>
> books
>
>>handy, I'd *love* to see it.
>>
>>
>>>Between (B) and (C): The helm faceplate is closed as opposed
>>>to open.
>>>I forget if the textual description of the helm specifies open or
>>>closed. If it doesn't, this might fall into the category of minor
>>>artistic detail.
>>
>>Yes, the open helm is part of the textual description, but at the size of
>>those icons, who can tell.
>>
>>
>>The general feeling I've gotten on these designs from people who have
>
> posted
>
>>run about half and half between "Over my dead body" and "Well if the
>
> active
>
>>brothers really want it, I guess I'll live with it." and that is without
>
> the
>
>>original poster even proposing them as replacements on the National level
>>rather than just cool icons that can be used on websites.
>>
>>Until someone gets up to the microphone and says "I want to change the
>>official national coat of arms/crest to what is there", I think the
>
> argument
>
>>is more or less done...
>>
>>
>>Randy
>>
