[23631] in APO-L
Re: [APO-L] Logo Issue, and side bar
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Buddha Buck)
Fri Mar 28 10:11:30 2003
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:11:08 -0500
Reply-To: Buddha Buck <bmbuck@14850.com>
From: Buddha Buck <bmbuck@14850.com>
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <56969875BA38D411940300204840ECE30AF94451@NGB-66C05-XCH92>
Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG wrote:
> OTOH
> Here are the things that I believe would be the largest financial cost to
> the National Fraternity if the crest was changed at a national convention.
> 1) Concrete coat of arms outside door to National Office, but its already
> incorrect (the triangles of drops are flipped, like the afghan/throws)
I'll note that historically (i.e., when and where armatage was
developed), minor artistic differences were allowed by necessity. What
was important was that the major recognizable features where present.
Details like the exact shape of a charge (like a sword) are considered
minor artistic differences, as were exact placements, difficulties in
getting exact color shades (Pantone hadn't been invented yet) made
anything from sky blue to navy acceptable as "blue", etc.
Things like number and type of charges, colors (as long as it was blue,
gold, red, etc) and general placements are important.
In this case, since the National Office uses two different patterns for
the triangle of dots, I'd consider that to be a minor artistic
difference, and not worth quibbling over.
Here are what I see, from a heraldic viewpoint, the differences between
(A) the original arms on the National Charter that Randy linked to in
his previous post, (B) the current arms as I see then today on the
National ebsite, and (c) the proposed "new logo":
Between (A) and (B): 1) Three fleur-de-lis are changed to three
torches. 2) (uncertain) The shape of the remaining fleur-de-lis changed
to be in sync with the BSA's usage. I don't know offhand if this is
significant. Does anyone know if the description of that element
changed in the ritual books when this change happened?
Between (B) and (C): The helm faceplate is closed as opposed to open.
I forget if the textual description of the helm specifies open or
closed. If it doesn't, this might fall into the category of minor
artistic detail.
As Randy has also pointed out, this is not the first time, nor will it
likely be the last time, some group or individual has chosen to reimage
the arms in their own artistic style. I personally have no problem with
that.
