[23268] in APO-L
Re: [APO-L] Fraternity History (was Pre-convention greetings)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Helen Johnson)
Tue Dec 10 15:43:27 2002
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 12:43:23 -0800
Reply-To: Helen Johnson <helen_johnson99@yahoo.com>
From: Helen Johnson <helen_johnson99@yahoo.com>
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.1021210133219.538979244B-100000@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU>
I have been trying to keep my mouth shut about this,
but, from the aspect of a historian I can't any more.
I have three thoughts:
> > but even if we have a history book, there will
> always be fights about which
> > version of history is the correct one. That's the
> science of history. So,
> > having a history book won't dispell issues raised
> in this discussion.
> Actually, the more infomration that is there, the
> fewer complainst there
> have generally been about the correctness of what is
> actually there.
1. It has been my experience, especially as I get
into my graduate work, that that is generally not
true. The more information there is, the more often
people are going to disagree and complain about what
is there. THe less information there is, the harder
it is to form a complete, substantiated argument.
Using the Jefferson/Hemmings debate that Randy brought
up, now that there is DNA proof that a Jefferson
fathered at least one of Sally's children, everyone
now says they were right about their history. The
Jefferson decendents say that they were right because
there is no proof that it was Thomas who fathered
Sally's children, and the Hemming's decendants say
they were right because the DNA showed that a
Jefferson fathered her children. There is never any
way to completely answer questions about history,
which is why historians are able to sit around and
bulls*&t for hours on end.
> While we have progressed in time where the primary
> sources have been lost
> (the founders themselves), the secondary sources
> appear to be quite
> available, ranging from the Past Nat Pres's to the
> Chief's Daughter.
2. While it may no longer be possible to interview
the Founders themselves, they more than likely (I
don't know for sure) left things like journals,
letters, and interviews with people before their
deaths, which are all primary sources also. Just
because you are unable to get the information straight
from the horses mouth does not mean that the primary
sources have been lost.
> The question in many ways is how much of this
> history should/needs to be
> taught to the pledges and how much is relevant
> today. Bill Clinton
> pledged, but is the fact that if his pledging
> process were duplicated by a
> chapter today they would probably be suspended and
> possibly revoked relevant? (the equivalent question
>beyond the fraternity level is when do you teach
>Jefferson & the Louisiana Purchase and when do you
>teach Jefferson and Sally Hemmings)
3. Again, as a historian, all of the history needs to
be available. The fact that what happened when Bill
Clinton pledged is no longer possible is very
relavent. It shows how the fraternity as a whole has
matured and changed over the years. That is what
history is all about. Learning from the past. I am a
very firm believer in the idea that "those who forget
the past are doomed to repeat it." If we don't learn
what went on during earlier years, the same mistakes
will be made and we, as a fraternity, will be
continually reinventing the wheel. All the history
needs to be available and taught. It would then be up
to individuals to make the decision as to whether what
they have learned is relevant or not. (and as for the
whole Jefferson/Louisiana Purchase/Sally Hemmings
things, Jefferson & the Louisian Purchase should be
taught with all American history classes, and the
Hemmings discussion should be saved for when/if
someone asks. Since there is currently no way to
substiante the truth of the rumors, it is opinion
history and shouldn't be part of a cirriculum)
In LF&S,
Helen Johnson
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