[23113] in APO-L
Re: [APO-L] -L format
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Kevin Yue)
Wed Nov 6 09:12:06 2002
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:13:26 -0500
Reply-To: Kevin Yue <kyue@GLUE.UMD.EDU>
From: Kevin Yue <kyue@GLUE.UMD.EDU>
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
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I agree with Brother Packy for most of her points. Though this is 2002
(almost 2003), people are still reading email using text only or have an
email retrieval program that does not accept RTF or HTML formats. I,
for one, adamantly refuse to use Microsoft Outlook, with all the news
about viruses being spread through that. I prefer using Netscape to
obtain my email. Yes, I do get all the RTF stuff and whatnot, fine.
But remember, if we are to serve as effective leaders, we must cater to
as much of the population as possible, which might mean a "stifling" in
the overall progress. Nevertheless, I would much rather "suffer"
reading text messages (which are much easier to skim than reading
colored text, etc.) than to leave my Brothers in the dark.
As for your point about "vintage" equipment, think of who is the change
in Alpha Phi Omega...the STUDENTS. As a result, college students
typically are unable to fund a new computer. All right, I agree that a
TRS-80 w/ 300 baud modem is a bit out of date, but I hope you see my
point there. Not all of us are able to get a new computer. This P2-350
that I'm writing this email on is nearly 5 years old, and that's
considered obsolete now! I'm still using it because it does what I need
it to do. As much as I feel that I need a new computer, I'm accepting
of the fact that I can't afford to spend money on a computer at this
time. This is only my case, so take it with a grain of salt.
I agree, though, Brother REV, that it's a matter of when we upgrade, but
I don't feel as if updating APO-L now would provide any benefits other
than being able to read cool fonts and whatnot. I don't care about the
visuals...I care about the content underlying the visuals.
In Leadership, Friendship, Service, and Brotherhood,
Kevin
Vehlow, Richard wrote:
> With all due respect, this is almost 2003 and no longer 1988 (when
> APO-l was founded) or 1993 (when APOSOC was founded). How much longer
> before we can get with the times? If someone out of 500 subscribers
> still reads email on a vintage TRS-80 with 300 baud modem, do we still
> have to keep the list at their level, or can we encourage them to
> finally move up in technology level?
>
> I do a newsletter in Word format for my engineering society and send
> it out as an attachment to over 200 people- some at home. I have yet
> to receive one complaint that said newsletter can't be opened. I
> venture to say that a vast majority of APOSOC people here are capable
> to receive rich mail and attachments.
>
> In my chapter, years ago i was laughed at when I first suggested that
> chapter newsletters be sent by email. "Who would read their email" was
> the quote. Within about 3-4 years, email newsletters became the
> standard in our chapter, and are now widely done in most chapters at
> least. Likewise who knew anything about the web in APO 10 years ago?
> So, I think it's not a question of if we should upgrade but when.
>
> -REV
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Packy Anderson [mailto:packy@daffy.dardan.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:44 AM
> To: Vehlow, Richard
> Cc: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
> Subject: Re: [APO-L] -L format
>
> Vehlow, Richard [Richard.Vehlow@OGS.STATE.NY.US] writes:
> > Right now, APO-L is in text-only mode. In Digest at least, more and
> more
> > messages are becoming garbled due to web and word control characters
> and
> > rich text.
> >
> > I have been on a couple of recent email lists where the Digest sends
> the
> > messages out as separate email attachment files in the daily post. When
> > you open them, they appear as they should be. Attachments, font styles
> > and all. Isn't it about time to go to this format for the list?
> >
> I'd vote a hearty NO. It's bad enough that individual messages are
> coming
> through in HTML and RTF, but if the entire digest came through as a bunch
> of MIME attachments it would make this list nigh-impossible to read for
> people who aren't using Microsoft Outlook to read their email.
> Personally,
> I am unable to read almost half the email messages on APO-L from work
> because of the way they are formatted; I have to save them and wait
> until I
> get home.
> -
> I'd say the better response would be to remind people that APO-L is a
> text
> only list, and that they should turn off Rich Text Formatting when they
> send messages to the list. Yes, it means that they're not able to select
> the font size and color for their messages, but it does ensure that
> everyone on the list is able to read their messages.
> -
> YiLFS,
> -packy
>
> --
> Packy Anderson
> packy@dardan.com
>
> Science Fiction Geek Pickup Line: "I'm the droid you're looking for."
>
--
"...If we can help, we should." - Captain Kathryn Janeway, USS Voyager
"Why are we doing this? Because it's in the syllabus!" - PHYS262 Professor
"Leisure is the mother of philosophy." - Thomas Hobbes, English Philosopher
"The machine does not isolate man from the great problems of nature but plunges him more deeply into them."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery, French Aviator, Writer
"For I dipp'd into the future, far as human eye can see
Saw the Vision of the world, and all the wonder that would be..."
- From Lord Alfred Tennyson's "Ulysses"
"Time is nature's way of stopping things from happening all at once."
- U of Texas graffiti
"Survival is insufficient." - Seven of Nine, USS Voyager
"I've done nothing, and for that, I am ashamed." - Capt. Benjamin Martin ("The Patriot")
--Boundary_(ID_waL1f8PBLIiWZB8vHd01ww)
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I agree with Brother Packy for most of her points. Though this is 2002 (almost
2003), people are still reading email using text only or have an email retrieval
program that does not accept RTF or HTML formats. I, for one, adamantly
refuse to use Microsoft Outlook, with all the news about viruses being spread
through that. I prefer using Netscape to obtain my email. Yes, I do get
all the RTF stuff and whatnot, fine. But remember, if we are to serve as
effective leaders, we must cater to as much of the population as possible,
which might mean a "stifling" in the overall progress. Nevertheless, I would
much rather "suffer" reading text messages (which are much easier to skim
than reading colored text, etc.) than to leave my Brothers in the dark. <br>
<br>
As for your point about "vintage" equipment, think of who is the change in
Alpha Phi Omega...the STUDENTS. As a result, college students typically
are unable to fund a new computer. All right, I agree that a TRS-80 w/ 300
baud modem is a bit out of date, but I hope you see my point there. Not
all of us are able to get a new computer. This P2-350 that I'm writing this
email on is nearly 5 years old, and that's considered obsolete now! I'm
still using it because it does what I need it to do. As much as I feel that
I need a new computer, I'm accepting of the fact that I can't afford to spend
money on a computer at this time. This is only my case, so take it with
a grain of salt. <br>
<br>
I agree, though, Brother REV, that it's a matter of when we upgrade, but
I don't feel as if updating APO-L now would provide any benefits other than
being able to read cool fonts and whatnot. I don't care about the visuals...I
care about the content underlying the visuals.<br>
<br>
In Leadership, Friendship, Service, and Brotherhood,<br>
Kevin<br>
<br>
Vehlow, Richard wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<title>RE: [APO-L] -L format</title>
<p><font size="2">With all due respect, this is almost 2003 and no longer
1988 (when APO-l was founded) or 1993 (when APOSOC was founded). How much
longer before we can get with the times? If someone out of 500 subscribers
still reads email on a vintage TRS-80 with 300 baud modem, do we still have
to keep the list at their level, or can we encourage them to finally move
up in technology level?</font></p>
<p><font size="2">I do a newsletter in Word format for my engineering society
and send it out as an attachment to over 200 people- some at home. I have
yet to receive one complaint that said newsletter can't be opened. I venture
to say that a vast majority of APOSOC people here are capable to receive
rich mail and attachments.</font></p>
<p><font size="2">In my chapter, years ago i was laughed at when I first
suggested that chapter newsletters be sent by email. "Who would read their
email" was the quote. Within about 3-4 years, email newsletters became the
standard in our chapter, and are now widely done in most chapters at least.
Likewise who knew anything about the web in APO 10 years ago? So, I think
it's not a question of if we should upgrade but when.</font></p>
<p><font size="2">-REV</font> </p>
<p><font size="2">-----Original Message-----</font> <br>
<font size="2">From: Packy Anderson [<a
href="mailto:packy@daffy.dardan.com">mailto:packy@daffy.dardan.com</a>]</font>
<br>
<font size="2">Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:44 AM</font> <br>
<font size="2">To: Vehlow, Richard</font> <br>
<font size="2">Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU">APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU</a></font> <br>
<font size="2">Subject: Re: [APO-L] -L format</font><br>
</p>
<p><font size="2">Vehlow, Richard [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Richard.Vehlow@OGS.STATE.NY.US">Richard.Vehlow@OGS.STATE.NY.US</a>] writes:</font>
<br>
<font size="2">> Right now, APO-L is in text-only mode. In Digest at
least, more and more</font> <br>
<font size="2">> messages are becoming garbled due to web and word control
characters and</font> <br>
<font size="2">> rich text.</font> <br>
<font size="2">></font> <br>
<font size="2">> I have been on a couple of recent email lists where
the Digest sends the</font> <br>
<font size="2">> messages out as separate email attachment files in
the daily post. When</font> <br>
<font size="2">> you open them, they appear as they should be. Attachments,
font styles</font> <br>
<font size="2">> and all. Isn't it about time to go to this format
for the list?</font> <br>
<font size="2">> </font> <br>
<font size="2">I'd vote a hearty NO. It's bad enough that individual messages
are coming</font> <br>
<font size="2">through in HTML and RTF, but if the entire digest came through
as a bunch</font> <br>
<font size="2">of MIME attachments it would make this list nigh-impossible
to read for</font> <br>
<font size="2">people who aren't using Microsoft Outlook to read their
email. Personally,</font> <br>
<font size="2">I am unable to read almost half the email messages on APO-L
from work</font> <br>
<font size="2">because of the way they are formatted; I have to save them
and wait until I</font> <br>
<font size="2">get home.</font> <br>
<font size="2">-</font> <br>
<font size="2">I'd say the better response would be to remind people that
APO-L is a text</font> <br>
<font size="2">only list, and that they should turn off Rich Text Formatting
when they</font> <br>
<font size="2">send messages to the list. Yes, it means that they're not
able to select</font> <br>
<font size="2">the font size and color for their messages, but it does
ensure that</font> <br>
<font size="2">everyone on the list is able to read their messages.</font>
<br>
<font size="2">-</font> <br>
<font size="2">YiLFS,</font> <br>
<font size="2">-packy</font> </p>
<p><font size="2">--</font> <br>
<font size="2">Packy Anderson
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:packy@dardan.com">packy@dardan.com</a></font> </p>
<p><font size="2">Science Fiction Geek Pickup Line: "I'm the droid you're
looking for."</font> </p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">--
"...If we can help, we should." - Captain Kathryn Janeway, USS Voyager
"Why are we doing this? Because it's in the syllabus!" - PHYS262 Professor
"Leisure is the mother of philosophy." - Thomas Hobbes, English Philosopher
"The machine does not isolate man from the great problems of nature but plunges him more deeply into them."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery, French Aviator, Writer
"For I dipp'd into the future, far as human eye can see
Saw the Vision of the world, and all the wonder that would be..."
- From Lord Alfred Tennyson's "Ulysses"
"Time is nature's way of stopping things from happening all at once."
- U of Texas graffiti
"Survival is insufficient." - Seven of Nine, USS Voyager
"I've done nothing, and for that, I am ashamed." - Capt. Benjamin Martin ("The Patriot")</pre>
<br>
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