[21075] in APO-L
[APO-L] BSA- APO thing
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Pete Fagan)
Wed Jul 26 17:07:45 2000
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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:07:33 EDT
Reply-To: PAfagan@AOL.COM
From: Pete Fagan <PAfagan@AOL.COM>
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
I have sat back and read most of the posts on this issue. I have also
remained quiet on many issues discussed here on APO- L.
The APOgrassroot web site is interesting, but the idea of legislation to cut
the tie is a bit extreme. And does that mean to include cutting ties with
GSUSA? Because they too, have similar membership policies... just nowhere
near as publicized but I have seen one news story about it... and many
GSUSA's will NOT let men be involved in their activities. I say "many"
because there are some that will.
I personally have no problems with the "gay" issue. I have a friend who
served on camp staff with me for three years.. .Eagle Scout... and Vigil and
everything in between. An extremely creative guy whom scouts coming through
the program today probably will not have the benefit of his experience.
However, I do believe that the religious issue is another point and do
believe that BSA needs to have that core value remain. I would in no way
classify myself as a religious fanatic... I am more like an occassional C & E
Catholic who now attends a Lutheran Church. But I still feel the "Duty to
God" must remain a strong point in the program. Sorry.
So where does this "witch-hunt" end? Do we cut ties with any and every group
that has a policy like this? And the BSA is just the most publicized policy.
Do we begin checking out every group APO has ties with? Let us be certain
about what we do before legislation is proposed for Philly 2000. I am sure
that there will be many explosive issues on the floor again... toast song...
brothers & sisters... the all male thing and now the BSA thing.
Folks... I think this has been said already... change takes time. And a
change like this will take a long time. Most Council Exec's are probably in
their 40's & 50's. Many of the primary council level leadership (volunteer)
is probably the same age. As it was said before... many in their 20's & 30's
have little problem with the issue... but the people in charge (including men
& women) do. Many claim that it will erode at the fabric of what Scouting
stands for. Keep in mind, many states still do not have legislation
protecting sexual identity as a protected class. So even in law there are
very few examples. Also include the military, religion, and marriage. So
this issue is larger than some Brother's feelings in APO -vs- the BSA.
This is a tricky issue... the BSA is primarily funded privately and to the
best of my knowledge (correct if different) does not receive federal or state
monies. Therefore, it is not covered until Title IX or similar laws. Now it
does become tricky for those troops, packs, and posts that meet at public
schools. Will these meeting locations be forced to ask the troops to leave
and find a new Chartering Organization? And many Chartering Organizations
will help troops buy new equipment. Public schools are covered by Title IX.
The BSA will have to at sometime come to grips with this issue. Those of us
20 & 30 somethings will be taking leading roles in the organization within
the next 10 years... but change in this type of organization comes slowly...
WE CANNOT EXPECT it to be overnight. If you are looking for overnight change
you are fooling yourself. Many volunteer leaders in BSA are retired military
men and women... and we do not need to expand on that.
I really do not see APO removing the Scouting representatives fom the BOD and
I also do not see us forcing the removal of our PR from the handbook, the OA
Handbook, The Eagle Scout Association and so on as the best answer.
A smaller advance would be the way to go. Many BSA District Executives would
be the first professional you will want to get on your side. Many of these
professionals are in their early 20's and just out of college. This is the
base level of professional scouting. You may have even gone to school with a
few if you are recently graduated.
I have had the opportunity to compare different councils. When I was a Scout
I was a member of a troop in the Pocono district of the Minsi Trails Council
in PA. (Allentown, PA) Looking at this council today, I would say that
there are more tolerant Scouters and Professionals in this council. Minsi
Trails was one of the first Councils to have women elected into the OA and
obtain Vigil Honor. A big step when there are still some lodges out there
that are still slow to move on this. Comparing MTC to where I live now in
upstate NY. I was recently involved with a troop in the General Herkimer
Council in NY. This council would not be as tolerant of gay men involved
with their scouts. The council is very small and stuck with very traditional
mindsets. Many of the leaders are "old school" and would not be very
accepting of a knowingly gay man involved with Scouting.
Another area is $$$. The BSA Councils are always doing capital campaign
projects, SFE, SME, and other money raising events. Work together to boycott
these groups that give significant money to the BSA. You'll see when the
mighty dollar does not come calling how fast BSA can change its tune.
A slap on the wrist to the BSA is not the way to make this change... The
Supreme Court has made its ruling and have given the BSA breathing room for a
couple more years... and this issue can divide our Brotherhood. We do not
need yet another issue like this that divides us on the floor. Ask around
about the '76 convention... fist fights on the national floor over admitting
women into APO. If it does make it to the convention floor I and ask that
you all feel compassion for our brothers that will sit as voting delegates.
Just my thoughts.
Pete Fagan
Alumnus- Delta Upsilon Chapter
East Stroudsburg University
(The views are my own thoughts and do not represent those of any component
part of APO, BSA.)
