[20338] in APO-L
All-Male Chapters/Philippines
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Jesse Bridges)
Wed Mar 24 01:32:14 1999
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 01:31:58 EST
Reply-To: Jesse Bridges <jaybee3@NETSCAPE.NET>
From: Jesse Bridges <jaybee3@NETSCAPE.NET>
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
(Jesse)
Thanks for your comments. You have to know there is a contingency that f=
eel
differently than most of the people who read this post. Some you gentlem=
en
have seriously mad some valid points. However, I know that sometimes t=
here
are people that has views that will not make them after one has received
opposition.
The idea was to create another organization under Alpha Phi Omega. One t=
hat
would encompass all-male organizational views and allow growth in both wo=
rlds.
One being the coed side and the all-male side, two entities not three. =
(One person)
I think Jesse, considering there are chapters today that remain all-male=
, the
idea of =
all-male chapters has not been consumed. The 6.5-hour debate and vote o=
n =
the "gender" resolution at the National Convention bears that out.
(Jesse)
I think your this statement is evidence of a blind eye being turn toward =
the
desires of men that are on campuses that would like to become a chapter t=
oday.
Our chapters do still exist today. But can they come back. Can the
graduates of Florida A&M University, step back and assist their chapter i=
f it
becomes inactive too long? Can brothers come together and create an inte=
rest
that duplicates the traditions that they once knew? So if your chapter =
goes
inactive then it has to be replaced by a coed chapter. That is consumptio=
n. =
Because of this agreement the answer is no. =
(Another Person)
Obviously, you like all-male chapters to stick around. That's great, as =
long
as =
they are able to they can, per the agreement. But, you'd also like to c=
reate
new ones. I'd say you have freedom of assembly and association, so anyo=
ne
who =
wants to form an all-male service fraternity based on the words of Fran=
k
Reed =
Horton and other APO founders, then they have every freedom to do so, j=
ust
not =
to call it Alpha Phi Omega.
(Jesse)
What kind of attitude is this? I can actually hear this voice with their=
foot
on my throat. It is like-don't bring that non-coed mess around me-. Yet=
this
organization started non-coed. So why is it so gruesome today? My idea
doesn't actually change anything for members within co-ed chapters. So w=
hy
the long face. All male groups are existing in numbers unknown to this f=
orum.
If this idea was successful, you just would have more activated chapter=
s. =
That's no so scary. The co-ed chapters are not going to change.
One member mentioned that the West Coast has small chapters and that spli=
tting
up three ways would break there chapters down. This passion is the pass=
ion
I'm talking about as well. I'm not saying split, because we will all be =
under
Alpha Phi Omega. Actually all I'm really saying is give the all-male
chapters an organization, let them organize themselves under Alpha Phi Om=
ega. =
(Another) =
Artificially? It had been generally recognized that a resolution was =
created in 1976 that delineated the circumstances under which chapters =
could
remain all-male. In 1998, a resolution that reiterated that of the 1976=
=
resolution was approved with a 326-58 vote BY THE CHAPTERS THEMSELVES. =
Considering the tone of the debate I was able to stay conscious for, I =
daresay most of the nays were from delegates who wanted to eliminate =
all-male chapters entirely.
Jesse
No, that would be inhumane. I know there are people that really hate who=
we
are. But that is just it. We are somebody. I know about 15 locations t=
hat
would like to start up an all-male chapter. Some which has already sent=
money to the National Office. And undergraduates come to me often about=
starting up a chapter, and when I tell them what to do they have an
understandable hard time with it. I say understandable because some peop=
le
have a hard time speaking to females in general in college. And when the=
y
already have more than enough guys to create a chapter, it just does not =
make
sense to me to reject good service minded individuals. I know about the =
vote.
And the vote was good. But the situation stands still. All I'm hearing=
from
this discussion is that the people of this organization do not want anybo=
dy
else that are not like themselves. There is a little something wrong wit=
h
that.
=
(Another): =
Again, this sounds like "separate but equal". I am a bit curious about =
something Jesse. Are these prospective members on campuses that have ha=
d =
chapters previously, or are they "virgin territory"? For those in the =
former case, I would like to know which campuses and what the reason is=
that
a chapter no longer exists there. If the latter, again, I'd like to kno=
w =
which campuses. =
(Jesse)
These locations are not virgin territory. I would rather not divulge tho=
se
locations in this forum.
(Another)
Almost a quarter century ago, this fraternity decided to go co-ed. The =
gentleman's agreement is not genocide, but was a compromise between cha=
nging
attitudes, and stagnant ones.
(Jesse)
If I make you sterile, so that you can not reproduce, I have just killed =
your
clan. This is that [if you are not like me then you should not exist in =
my
world} mind thought processes that I keep trying to show exist within som=
e
that are non-stagnant brothers to me. There is exist another person with=
in
this organization within co-ed chapters that would rather see their chapt=
er
all-male. If people are not open to any ideas then you become stagnant a=
s
well. Also you do not make a way.
(Another)
No, but at the same time the majority has the right to impose condition=
s =
under which the minority participates, provided those conditions do not=
=
discriminate against someone due to their race, gender, national origin=
, =
etc. If you can explain to me how forcing a prospective chapter to acce=
pt =
women as full members is discriminatory, I'd love to hear it. =
(Jesse)
Not discriminatory, but it is just as bad to force men go fetch women for=
the
fraternity. This gender aspect is not real. If you look at how it shoul=
d be,
then it would be like this. A chapter should get suspended for discrimina=
ting.
It should not turn them down. I know a situation where a petitioning =
group
had one member get their petitioning status revoked. And they do not have=
any
females no more. They have paid the National Office, but because of one
careless mistake by a now missing member of the innocent survivors, these=
men
are not welcomed into this fraternity. And some have been trying for nea=
r two
years and will be graduating soon. =
(Another)
Imagine how boring life would be, let alone the fraternity, if we were a=
ll
mindless drones. =
(Jesse)
I have to say that accepting only one form of thinking is pretty close to=
making sure all people have the same thought function is pretty close.
(Another)
Frank Reed Horton's words are renewed every day by thousands of men and =
women in this nation and around the world. Considering that his vision=
was =
one of inclusiveness, I think he would be disappointed in us all if the=
re =
were two APOUSA's. =
(Jesse)
I mean adjust his quotes to be his actually first version of quotes. I r=
eally
think the opposite. I think Frank would approve. And that's considering=
his
initial vision.
(Another) =
This offends me. Alpha Phi Omega National Service Fraternity is very mu=
ch =
alive and growing. Alpha Phi Omega National Coed Service Fraternity doe=
s =
not exist except, in my opinion, in the minds of those who can't tolera=
te =
the thought of women as members of the fraternity. =
(Jesse)
No offense intended. I thought certain the name had been changed, becaus=
e I
see a lot of coed members using it, Sorry.
=
(Another)
I believe your intent would disappear into a fog of which group is the "t=
rue"
Alpha Phi =
Omega, and the brotherhood as a whole would suffer for it. =
(Jesse)
I think this is a bit arrogant. Alpha Phi Omega exist. There are peopl=
e
that support the principles all over the world. The Philippines are just=
as
"true" and the Puerto Ricans. The All the executive National Offices wou=
ld be
the same. So it just sounds like the current change is all that you are=
willing to change to. The previous change was monumental. With
international branches all ready under Alpha Phi Omega the only reason no=
t to
create a branch for All-male hear in the states would be for fear of the
failures of the coed chapters. Now come, on does it look like the 300+ a=
ctive
co-ed chapters of Alpha Phi Omega will be slowing down in growth? With t=
he
advent of organized all-male chapters, we have growth on both ends of the=
spectrum. I guess I can see anything wrong with that because, I exist on=
the
other side spectrum the sterile side. =
Jesse
=
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