[20337] in APO-L
[Re: [APO-L] All-Male Chapters/Philipines]
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Elliot Echlov)
Tue Mar 23 23:20:25 1999
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:10:19 -0500
Reply-To: Elliot Echlov <mister-e@MINDSPRING.COM>
From: Elliot Echlov <mister-e@MINDSPRING.COM>
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
Jesse said:
I do not think the overall group should ever be separate. But there exist
two distinctive ideas about this organization. One that is co-ed, the other
is all-male. The co-ed idea should not consume the non-coed idea. But that
is what is happening, artificially.
My response:
On first read, this sounds a lot like "separate but equal". I'm certain
that is not your intent. But as things now stand, as they have since 1976,
chapters may remain all-male provided they a) have stayed active since that
time, and b) do not admit women as members of the chapter. I think Jesse,
considering there are chapters today that remain all-male, the idea of
all-male chapters has not been consumed. The 6.5-hour debate and vote on
the "gender" resolution at the National Convention bears that out.
Jesse said:
Artificially because of the groups of all-males eager to join Alpha Phi
Omega as a chapter, are being purposely held back, because the regional
directors that are sworned to the (Genocide Gentlemen's Agreement) That, of
course, they have no choice.now.
My response:
Artificially? It had been generally recognized that a resolution was
created in 1976 that delineated the circumstances under which chapters could
remain all-male. In 1998, a resolution that reiterated that of the 1976
resolution was approved with a 326-58 vote BY THE CHAPTERS THEMSELVES.
Considering the tone of the debate I was able to stay conscious for, I
daresay most of the nays were from delegates who wanted to eliminate
all-male chapters entirely. Regional Directors are sworn to uphold the
wishes of the National Convention, as are section chairs, national board
members, and other national officers.
Jesse said:
So I say artificially, as opposed to non-artificially, where it would be
that men would like to join Alpha Phi Omega and rather exist as a coed
chapter today. If they did want to join Alpha Phi Omega as a coed chapter,
then you would see men that exist as you thought they would. A desire to
join equal to yours "on their own". Which is very true for most cases. But
you have those guys that would not want to have to be force to get one
female to become an Alpha Phi Omega fraternity.
My response:
Again, this sounds like "separate but equal". I am a bit curious about
something Jesse. Are these prospective members on campuses that have had
chapters previously, or are they "virgin territory"? For those in the
former case, I would like to know which campuses and what the reason is that
a chapter no longer exists there. If the latter, again, I'd like to know
which campuses.
Jesse said:
How can this idea work in the Philippines, a country with not as many
cultures as our own? Easy. We have (I hate to say so, but it is true) a
more dominate culture in the United States. But is it American, to control
and reshape growth as the majority without considering the minority's desire
or how it will effect them?
My response:
No, but at the same time the majority has the right to impose conditions
under which the minority participates, provided those conditions do not
discriminate against someone due to their race, gender, national origin,
etc. If you can explain to me how forcing a prospective chapter to accept
women as full members is discriminatory, I'd love to hear it.
Jesse said:
We are a Melting Pot of ideas too.
My response:
Amen to that. Imagine how boring life would be, let alone the fraternity,
if we were all mindless drones.
Jesse said:
And I'm just wondering why not consider the thought. And after I started
wondering, I began to see the benefits. The history and the actual words
Frank Reed Horton stated can be renewed. The significant history of
everything that transpired to create the Coed Fraternity could have faithful
documentation. A new toast song can be created. Alpha Phi Omega is big,
I'm not saying split us up. I'm saying make a place for everyone.
My response:
Frank Reed Horton's words are renewed every day by thousands of men and
women in this nation and around the world. Considering that his vision was
one of inclusiveness, I think he would be disappointed in us all if there
were two APOUSA's.
Jesse said:
(United States)
Alpha Phi Omega National Service Fraternity (Deceased)
Alpha Phi Omega National Coed Service Fraternity
One national president, one national convention
My response:
This offends me. Alpha Phi Omega National Service Fraternity is very much
alive and growing. Alpha Phi Omega National Coed Service Fraternity does
not exist except, in my opinion, in the minds of those who can't tolerate
the thought of women as members of the fraternity.
Yours is an interesting idea Jesse. Certainly one of the more original
thoughts I've seen in some time on APO-L. Unfortunately, I believe your
intent would disappear into a fog of which group is the "true" Alpha Phi
Omega, and the brotherhood as a whole would suffer for it.
YiLF&S
Elliot Echlov
Section 77 Chair
