[3324] in linux-net channel archive
Re: Bug in 1.2.13 firewall?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (ATPlack)
Wed Jun 19 03:24:25 1996
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 17:47:35 -0500
From: ATPlack <ATPlack@scj.com>
To: ATPLACK@scj.com, dennis@etinc.com
Cc: linux-net@vger.rutgers.edu
Sorry, proprietary - anything that is not shared due to ownership,
confidentiality, or competitive reasons.
It has nothing to do with secrets or locked-in. These are used of a
companies which simply does not disclose information necessary to use the
product. I assume, your company has provide a working driver and
documentation for it's board. I assume, you provide some tech. support.
Hopefully, your company listens to possible bugs without charging like some
big networking companies starting with an N.
Even if you charge for them. Nobody wishes for you to provide free
services. Service and support in a _free_ software environment are valid
things to charge for. After all, we have to feed our families too. We are
not asking for free tech. support, free documentation, or even free product.
You have stated that code is the only thing that separates your company from
it's competition. No doubt. Anyone can produce a T1 board. I am not
challenging that. You state that being unique has it's advantages. We
believe that also. Ask Red Hat Inc. or Caldera. No problem here from being
unique. You want to protect that code because it's unique. Fine.
I am sure that you provide access to the direct functions of your card.
Probably no one asked. After all anyone can have the board, we would just
not have your software. If all you make money from is the software, then
this is a problem. But I am sure this is a company secret (and rightly so).
I am not indicating that your claims about some of the losers in the _free_
software camp are not correct. There are equally losers in the sync. card
camps as well I am sure. You are defining that you are not one of those
companies. Good.
You speak of religious belief yet you defend this as if it might be wrong in
someone's eyes. There is no such thing as being wrong on either camp. I do
not condemn you for being proprietary. Nor do I condemn someone else for
being _free_. I just think that the _free_ software camp is attracting more
and more programers that are above the mark. I think you will see that more
companies that have their roots in the _free_ software camp are going to
make it. It is a matter of definition. (Lose the attitude dude)
We have had a long haul of companies and organizations that have proprietary
software. Is that bad? NO. We needed them to get us to where we are
today. Is it correct to continue that way. MAYBE. We will see where the
free market takes us. Do we have a shot at taking back some of the code
that we have not be private to. We also have an equal chance of failing on
our face. (I love free markets!!!!) YES. If I had told you that companies
would be giving away software 10 years ago as a matter of regular business,
you would have called me nuts. But no one who bought NetScape stock
believes they are today.
Should you feel threatened? Maybe. You need to leverage more than just the
code, because if the code is your saving grace, somebody out there will code
it for less and faster. It is a rat race. That is why so many companies
are reorganizing. Business is tough. I know that. We live it.
Stop being irked. You have no business being this way. After all, the
customer isn't always right, are they? Let them think their stupid
thoughts, if you can make them happy, great. If not free market could make
that decision a bummer. :)
I leave you with this thought (non-religious, more philosophy). Free market
or Controlled market? Your choice. Remember you can be idealistic about a
free market but if you cannot compete, you lose. It is harder to live your
ideals than most people believe, ask any business man.
These views are my own. Not anyone else's.
----------
From: dennis@etinc.com
To: ATPLACK@scj.com
Cc: linux-net@vger.rutgers.edu
Subject: Re: Bug in 1.2.13 firewall?
Date: Monday, June 17, 1996 5:22PM
ATPlack <ATPlack@scj.com> writes
>I think that Dennis is correct. I do not see any other company supporting
>beta code for their products. Even the software market that does beta will
>tell you that support for beta code is insane. Yes, you need to know about
>bugs, but just because 90% of the software companies out there do not know
>the difference between a bug submission forum and tech support doesn't mean
>that we should force proprietary companies to divulge those secrets that
>make them a winner in the proprietary game. I think that Linux has proven
>that the _free_ market is better, but not all see the light yet.
>
>Like I have stated before on one of these forums. We should understand the
>difference between _free_ code and proprietary systems.
This particular statement irks me a bit. The religious belief that anything
that
doesnt provide full source is "proprietary" is simply wrong. I've heard
people use
terms like "locked in" and "secrets", and this is just plain bunk. There's
nothing
proprietary about our products. We're not designing our own protocols. If
you buy
a card from us theres no requirement that any other device on your net or
anyone
else's use our products. We invest time and money in development, and to
give
it
away to our competitors is simply ridiculous. The fact is that you can't
enforce
copyrights in todays world, because the courts dont understand technology
enough
and there's too much gray area. There's nothing secret about our
products....but we
maintain our advantage and market lead in features by not giving away the
work that
we've done. People buy our stuff because they like the way we do things, and
thats
our advantage. We're protecting technique..not because its better, but
because its
unique. And thats what set us apart from our competitors.
Denis
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