[96641] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: ma'to'vor
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rohan Fenwick)
Mon Jul 8 11:17:52 2013
From: Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 01:17:18 +1000
In-Reply-To: <F52986192E9FE346B0B7EF3D6F98E877122A7D0E@EXDB3.ug.kth.se>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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ghItlhpu' Voragh=2C jatlh:
> The ritual appears in the {paq'batlh}
Actually=2C not quite.
The ritual in the paq'batlh is the Heghbat=2C which allows a warrior to kil=
l themselves without tainting their honour when too injured to continue to =
stand against their enemy=2C or when some other matter of honour demands it=
(in Kahless's case=2C in order for him to fulfill his word to Kortar that =
he will accompany him back to the underworld). The ma' to'vor=2C by contras=
t=2C requires that the warrior already have been dishonoured=3B ritual exec=
ution at the hand of another=2C usually a tuqnIgh "Housemate"=2C is what re=
stores the honour in that case.
jang loghaD=2C jatlh:
> In the book=2C this event is referred to as qeylIS Heghbat=2C although a =
ma'veq
> is used. Perhaps this term refers to any form of ritualized consensual de=
ath
> - or at least perhaps it did in Kahless' time - and as such is appropriat=
e to
> describe the ma'to'vor.
Hm. In both KGT and Sarek=2C the Heghbat and Heghba' are both explicitly de=
scribed as ritual *suicide*=2C as it is in the paq'batlh (paq'QIH 3:16-18):
DaH wanI' potlh taghlu'
tIqDu'Daj DuQqu'meH qeylIS
ma'veq cha' 'etlhmey jop
By contrast=2C DeCandido's description of the {ma' to'vor} seems pretty cle=
arly to include another person as the agent of the death. I think the two a=
re distinct=2C though they may both rely on the ceremonial ma'veq.
QeS
=
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>ghItlhpu' Voragh=2C jatlh:<br>&g=
t=3B The ritual appears in the {paq'batlh}<br><div><br>Actually=2C not quit=
e.<br><br>The ritual in the paq'batlh is the Heghbat=2C which allows a warr=
ior to kill themselves without tainting their honour when too injured to co=
ntinue to stand against their enemy=2C or when some other matter of honour =
demands it (in Kahless's case=2C in order for him to fulfill his word to Ko=
rtar that he will accompany him back to the underworld). The ma' to'vor=2C =
by contrast=2C requires that the warrior already have been dishonoured=3B r=
itual execution at the hand of another=2C usually a tuqnIgh "Housemate"=2C =
is what restores the honour in that case.<br><br>jang loghaD=2C jatlh:<br>&=
gt=3B In the book=2C this event is referred to as qeylIS Heghbat=2C althoug=
h a ma'veq<br>>=3B is used. Perhaps this term refers to any form of ritua=
lized consensual death<br>>=3B - or at least perhaps it did in Kahless' t=
ime - and as such is appropriate to<br>>=3B describe the ma'to'vor.<br><b=
r>Hm. In both KGT and Sarek=2C the Heghbat and Heghba' are both explicitly =
described as ritual *suicide*=2C as it is in the paq'batlh (paq'QIH 3:16-18=
):<br><br>DaH wanI' potlh taghlu'<br>tIqDu'Daj DuQqu'meH qeylIS<br>ma'veq c=
ha' 'etlhmey jop<br><br>By contrast=2C DeCandido's description of the {ma' =
to'vor} seems pretty clearly to include another person as the agent of the =
death. I think the two are distinct=2C though they may both rely on the cer=
emonial ma'veq.<br><br>QeS<br></div> </div></body>
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