[101211] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] is there a word for "darth" ?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Bellerophon, modeler)
Sun Sep 20 22:28:45 2015
In-Reply-To: <1653068759.766422.1442780915970.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:28:12 -0400
From: "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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In speaking of him to Luke Skywalker, Obi-wan Kenobi refers to Darth Vader
as "Vader," but later addresses him as "Darth." Grand Moff Tarkin addresses
him a "Vader." Lower ranking Imperial personnel address him as "Lord
Vader." One might infer that his personal name is Darth and that Vader is a
surname, except that in the prequels, every Sith lord's name begins with
Darth, which is supposed to mean something like Dark Lord. He is in fact
called "Dark Lord of the Sith" in the script of the original Star Wars.
A literal translation of dark lord would be {joH Hurgh}, but is there any
canon usage that associates darkness with evil? To avoid that, {joH mIgh}
gets the idea across adequately. So a guy named veyDIr who goes into the
dark lord business might expect to be called veyDIr joH mIgh. Sauron might
also like to be addressed in this fashion were he to meet any Klingons.
This begs the question, why does Klingon need a term for Darth, any more
than Sindarin needs one for bat'leth?
~'eD
On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 4:28 PM, Fiat Knox <fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> George Lucas said that "Darth Vader" is meant to be "Dark Father," a
> somewhat clumsy way of concealing the fact that Vader happened to be Luke's
> Dad right at the outset.
>
> So it would be "vav Hurgh" at best.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 20 September 2015, 20:28, HoD qunnoQ <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> now that i think of it,maybe the most correct way to say it would be
> "veyDIr Hurgh" ; would i be right to think so ?
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 8:30 PM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv <
> lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The short version of the answer:
>
> There is no known Klingon "word" for "Darth".
>
> The explanation, for anyone interested:
>
> First of all, words have meaning, and what, exactly, does "Darth" mean? Is
> it his first name? Is it his rank? Is it his title?
>
> So far as I know, there's only been one Darth, and I've never heard him
> referred to as either "Darth" or "Vader". Never anything like, "So, Darth,
> how's it going?" Never anything like, "Mr. Vader gave you an order!" Every
> reference to him that I can recall has been the naming pair "Darth Vader".
> If not for the pause, it might as well be one word: "Darthvader". -- Hmm.
> Maybe I've heard "Vader" alone, but I don't remember if that was in a
> movie, or just among people talking about the movies.
>
> Meanwhile, "Darth" is really hard to say in Klingon. The consonants at the
> end are just all wrong for the language. Attempts to transliterate might
> come out as {Dargh} or {Datlh} or {Dartlhe'} or {DarSe'} or {Darte'}.
> Unfortunately, my own guess as to how a Klingon ear might hear it favors
> {Dargh}, which is the Klingon word for "tea", which is a drink that doesn't
> get a lot of respect among Klingons, with an emotional connotation quite
> unlike the dark, fearful effect that "Darth" is clearly intended to convey.
>
> So, if "Darth" is a word and it has a meaning, we need to know what that
> meaning is before we attempt to find the closest Klingon word to that
> meaning. If it is more simply a proper noun with a sound, but no meaning,
> then we need to arbitrarily transliterate that sound, fixing the broken
> consonant cluster at the end, since the only consonant "r-something"
> cluster that can end a syllable in Klingon is {-rgh}, and there is no "th"
> sound in Klingon. We might be tempted to consider {tlh} the equivalent to
> "th" but it is at least as far from "th" as is {S} or {t}. Likely, {S} is
> the closest sound to "th".
>
> "Vader" is easier. It would be {veyDIr} or maybe {veyDer}. Again, this is
> transliteration, not translation, and human pronunciation is not consistent
> enough to be other than arbitrary in choosing one most accurate
> transliteration.
>
> Sent from my iPad
> lojmIt tI'wI' nuv
>
> > On Sep 20, 2015, at 12:15 PM, HoD qunnoQ <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > nuqneH
> >
> > i would like to ask if someone knows how to say in Klingon the word
> "darth" ; "darth" as in "darth vader".
> > i am pretty sure that if Klingons existed within the star wars mythos,
> they would make some of the best Sith lords ever.
> >
> > Qapla'!
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> > Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> > http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
>
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--
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My other modeling blog: http://bellerophon.blog.com/
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>In speaking of him to Luke Skywalker, Obi-w=
an Kenobi refers to Darth Vader as "Vader," but later addresses h=
im as "Darth." Grand Moff Tarkin addresses him a "Vader.&quo=
t; Lower ranking Imperial personnel address him as "Lord Vader." =
One might infer that his personal name is Darth and that Vader is a surname=
, except that in the prequels, every Sith lord's name begins with Darth=
, which is supposed to mean something like Dark Lord. He is in fact called =
"Dark Lord of the Sith" in the script of the original Star Wars.<=
br><br></div>A literal translation of dark lord would be {joH Hurgh}, but i=
s there any canon usage that associates darkness with evil? To avoid that, =
{joH mIgh} gets the idea across adequately. So a guy named veyDIr who goes =
into the dark lord business might expect to be called veyDIr joH mIgh. Saur=
on might also like to be addressed in this fashion were he to meet any Klin=
gons.<br><br></div>This begs the question, why does Klingon need a term for=
Darth, any more than Sindarin needs one for bat'leth?<br></div>~'e=
D<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun=
, Sep 20, 2015 at 4:28 PM, Fiat Knox <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailt=
o:fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk</a>></s=
pan> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"color:#000=
;background-color:#fff;font-family:Courier New,courier,monaco,monospace,san=
s-serif;font-size:16px"><div dir=3D"ltr">George Lucas said that "Darth=
Vader" is meant to be "Dark Father," a somewhat clumsy way =
of concealing the fact that Vader happened to be Luke's Dad right at th=
e outset.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">So it would be &=
quot;vav Hurgh" at best.</div><div><div class=3D"h5"> <br><div><br><b=
r></div><div style=3D"display:block"> <div style=3D"font-family:Courier New=
,courier,monaco,monospace,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div style=3D"font-fa=
mily:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,Sans-Serif;=
font-size:16px"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> On Sund=
ay, 20 September 2015, 20:28, HoD qunnoQ <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> </font> </div=
> <blockquote style=3D"border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px=
;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px"> <br><br> <div><div><div dir=3D"ltr">now=
that i think of it,maybe the most correct way to say it would be "vey=
DIr Hurgh" ; would i be right to think so ?<br><div><br><div>On Sun, S=
ep 20, 2015 at 8:30 PM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a =
rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank=
">lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left=
:1ex">The short version of the answer:<br>
<br>
There is no known Klingon "word" for "Darth".<br>
<br>
The explanation, for anyone interested:<br>
<br>
First of all, words have meaning, and what, exactly, does "Darth"=
mean? Is it his first name? Is it his rank? Is it his title?<br>
<br>
So far as I know, there's only been one Darth, and I've never heard=
him referred to as either "Darth" or "Vader". Never an=
ything like, "So, Darth, how's it going?" Never anything like=
, "Mr. Vader gave you an order!" Every reference to him that I ca=
n recall has been the naming pair "Darth Vader". If not for the p=
ause, it might as well be one word: "Darthvader". -- Hmm. Maybe I=
've heard "Vader" alone, but I don't remember if that was=
in a movie, or just among people talking about the movies.<br>
<br>
Meanwhile, "Darth" is really hard to say in Klingon. The consonan=
ts at the end are just all wrong for the language. Attempts to transliterat=
e might come out as {Dargh} or {Datlh} or {Dartlhe'} or {DarSe'} or=
{Darte'}. Unfortunately, my own guess as to how a Klingon ear might he=
ar it favors {Dargh}, which is the Klingon word for "tea", which =
is a drink that doesn't get a lot of respect among Klingons, with an em=
otional connotation quite unlike the dark, fearful effect that "Darth&=
quot; is clearly intended to convey.<br>
<br>
So, if "Darth" is a word and it has a meaning, we need to know wh=
at that meaning is before we attempt to find the closest Klingon word to th=
at meaning. If it is more simply a proper noun with a sound, but no meaning=
, then we need to arbitrarily transliterate that sound, fixing the broken c=
onsonant cluster at the end, since the only consonant "r-something&quo=
t; cluster that can end a syllable in Klingon is {-rgh}, and there is no &q=
uot;th" sound in Klingon. We might be tempted to consider {tlh} the eq=
uivalent to "th" but it is at least as far from "th" as=
is {S} or {t}. Likely, {S} is the closest sound to "th".<br>
<br>
"Vader" is easier. It would be {veyDIr} or maybe {veyDer}. Again,=
this is transliteration, not translation, and human pronunciation is not c=
onsistent enough to be other than arbitrary in choosing one most accurate t=
ransliteration.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
lojmIt tI'wI' nuv<br>
<div><div><br>
> On Sep 20, 2015, at 12:15 PM, HoD qunnoQ <<a rel=3D"nofollow" href=
=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> w=
rote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> nuqneH<br>
><br>
> i would like to ask if someone knows how to say in Klingon the word &q=
uot;darth" ; "darth" as in "darth vader".<br>
> i am pretty sure that if Klingons existed within the star wars mythos,=
they would make some of the best Sith lords ever.<br>
><br>
> Qapla'!<br>
><br>
><br>
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