[973] in Public-Access_Computer_Systems_Forum
Re: Zen II and Exploiting the Market
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Michael S. Hart)
Tue Aug 11 13:19:32 1992
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 11:26:06 CDT
Reply-To: Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <PACS-L%UHUPVM1.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
From: "Michael S. Hart" <HART@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list PACS-L <PACS-L%UHUPVM1.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 10 Aug 1992 10:06:22 CDT from <LIBPACS@UHUPVM1>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>re: Elizabeth Lane <ELANE3@UA1VM>
>Subject: Re: Zen II and Exploiting the Market
>
>>I have never heard of computer accounts that can't store the 175K file.
>>
>Well, now you *have* heard of such accounts. Believe me, they exist, and
>are not uncommon. Many schools are limited in the amount of disk space
>they can provide, particularly to students. If you know what to ask for,
>you can often have your disk space allocation increased--but you *have to
>know what to ask for and who to ask.* Not an easy task for a new user at
>a large institution.
This point may have answered itself, but I should probably amplify the
answer to insure that it is understood.
First, nearly all computer accounts can hold 175K. . .only half of a
low density 5 1/4" floppy. Second, as the writer presents. . .more
space is (usually) available for the asking. Third, even when more
permanent space is not easily to be had, temporary space is.
Of course, different computers and computer centers do this differently,
so you WILL have to ask. There is no way at present we could write a
manual that would cover every setup. Try making a few phone calls.
That makes the task a little easier.
>
>>Nor have I met anyone who could not find out how to use their email. . .
>>sometimes you have to ask a few times to get the right person. . .but an
>>easy phone or two call can take care of that.
>>
> The fact that there is an appalling high illiteracy
>rate in the country is not a reason to stop publishing books--but it is also
>not reasonable for me to say that since none of *my* friends are illiterate,
>the problem doesn't exist and shouldn't be addressed.
>
Of course not, and that is one of the goals of the Project Gutenberg Etexts,
and in the case of learning email, a goal of A Child's Garden of the Internet.
Please remember, when you accuse us of demanding email literacy. . .we are
NOT demanding that email users get our work via email, paper copies are
encouraged for Child's Garden. We prefer BOTH paper and email distribution.
However, there is a limit to how much we can provide as intro to each specific
setup, as above. We try for "the most bang for the buck" with our efforts. . .
this means we can only cover topics that have a wide audience. . .we cannot
possibly write pre-constructed answers for every user on every system, esp.
when the systems change daily. We are doing the best we can, to exhaustion.
Suggestions are welcome, and non-suggestions are considered flames.
>>Any non-inflamatory reply would be most appreciated, either to the lists,
>>or to me personally. Flames will be allowed to incinerate themselves.
>
>| Elizabeth Lane Internet: elane3@ua1vm.ua.edu |
>| University of Alabama BITNET: ELANE3@UA1VM |
>*-----
>
>From: "Peter Graham, Rutgers U., (908) 932-2741" <GRAHAM@ZODIAC.BITNET>
>Subject: Re: Zen II and Exploiting the Market
>
>PG will attempt a non-inflammatory reply: I think one of the reasons you get
>replies in tones that you don't care for is that you have apparently set up
>your operation wholly in isolation from what's going on elsewhere. You may
>be absolutely right in everything you do, as you suggest; but the history of
>lone operations being quite so correct is slim. The result of your apparently
>being out of the mainstream is that the mainstream, a bunch of reasonable
>people themselves, wonders what you're doing and where you're going. Your
>modes of selection and presentation are not the result of any consensus but
>rather of your own assertion. The result is that you're going to hear some
>counter-assertions.
>
>--pg
Peter Graham of Rutgers asserts that Project Gutenberg is:
"wholly in isolation from what's going on elsewhere."
One: how could a collection of "best sellers" be isolated? Obviously the
mainstream has chosen these materials as the most mainstream of all.
In fact, the opposite assertion would be more valid, that Project Gutenberg
is so mainstream as to be totally spineless and middle of the road, since we
choose our materials simply from was is in the most massive mass media. The
Project has no theme other than to bring you the most used classics in the
areas if light and heavy literature and reference.
In terms of Child's Garden, we provide answers on the same basis. . .we can't
write a chapter on something relevant to only a few percent of a population,
it just isn't feasible.
Interestingly, we must be well in the middle of the road because we equally
get a flame or two a month from both sides: those who feel we are too
mainstream, and those who feel we are not mainstream enough.
Some feel we are too solidly ignoring those in the upper 1%, by not creating
etexts of the most authoritative editions in their fields. Our reply is the
Project Gutenberg Etexts are 99% the same in content as the average editions
the average people read. We just can't do all that extra work for 1% of the
audience yet, but we will. We intend to release several editions of a major
author such as Shakespeare or Aristotle, and to use the authoritative folios
and quartos, and translations, respectively. However this will take time.
On the other hand, we can't produce editions just for the 1% at the other end
of the spectrum. We can provide free books to the world, but we can't read
them for you. However, there are computer programs that can read them aloud,
and we are glad to hear our etexts are being used with such programs.
The new semester starts soon, so there will be much less time for this sort
of conversation, but I hope it has been worthwhile for most of you. Those
who disagree are encouraged to make suggestions. . .you might be surprised
to hear how many suggestions we have taken from these supposedly "flaming"
conversations, even when it would appear we would not. (Example: Census
searching was massively helped by a visit suggested in what we determined
was a flame. However, in person we got along quite well. This is one part
of email we are still trying to work on. . .we seem to get along much better
with everyone in person that via email.
=====================================================
Thank you for your interest,
Michael S. Hart, Professor of Electronic Text
Executive Director of Project Gutenberg Etext
Illinois Benedictine College, Lisle, IL 60532
No official connection to U of Illinois--UIUC
