[736] in Public-Access_Computer_Systems_Forum
What's Going on Here?, Part II
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Public-Access Computer Systems For)
Mon Jul 13 18:52:31 1992
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1992 17:42:59 CDT
Reply-To: Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <PACS-L%UHUPVM1.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
From: Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <LIBPACS%UHUPVM1.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list PACS-L <PACS-L%UHUPVM1.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
6 Messages, 193 Lines
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From: cjg@stubbs.ucop.edu (Czeslaw Jan Grycz, Univ of CA, Office of the
President)
Subject: Re: What's Going on Here?
David Tyckoson recently posted his concerns about seeing information
originally appearing on the INTERNET being produced also in print. I have
a slightly different "take" to what he views as a detrimental and
disturbing process, and couch my reactions in terms of "scholarly"
information (though my definition of "scholarly" is quite inclusive in this
context.
1./ Electronic and print forms of communication will co-exist (likely
forever; assuredly for the next half century). Each medium will serve its
most appropriate niche, and will be modified by the active users of each.
2./ In "modern times" publishers have been central to the "communications"
process (ever since academic meetings became too large, and scholars aware
of, but were too distant from one another to communicate easily in person
(circa mid 18th C.). The position of _centrality_ has been - in large part
- lost by publishers to electronic networks. This loss is the cause of
considerable consternation, realignments, and economic uncertainties.
3./ While electronic networks permit a great number of scholars,
themselves (though, by no means, all scholars) to regain mastery over their
own communication medium, this does not negate the high value provided by
the print, as medium; nor of publishers, as masters of the print medium.
4./ It is entirely reasonable to assume that publishing professionals will
energetically "mine" the networks, much as they have "mined" scholarly
meetings, for "juicy morsels" that might be marketed and sold at a profit.
The complaint heard in recent times is that the availability of published
materials was no longer a matter of choice but of obligation, and that -
being obligatory - purchasers felt increasingly put upon by publishers who
charged for the convenience and service of publication.
The difference, now, I think, is that - over time - published print
editions will be bought on the basis of inherent _values_ supplied by
print, and which are added to electronic information. One can identify any
number of such values: (1) Increased degree of review and "Quality
Assurance," (2) Collections of similar materials in an interesting
"package," (3) Editorial contributions by way of analysis, apparati,
classification, cross-references, hypertext links, etc., (4) Guaranteed
accessibility by people remote from electronic networks (especially in
developing nations... or at least for a short time for those regions), (5)
Archiving in traditional print collections, with all the attendant values
Librarian's add to print collections, ...and so on.
5./ If we separate "communication" from "enterprise" of scholarly
communication, we can perhaps understand the different functionality
provided by electronic networks, and the different services provided by
print. Some material will remain the exclusive domain of one or the other.
There's little doubt that an overlapping area will exist in which some
print products will go electronic, and other electronic data will go print.
6./ There are a lot of adjustments that will be necessary because of these
migrations. What has worked for print (royalty arrangements, intellectual
property ownership conventions, legal protections, etc.) will not work for
electronics. But seeing the domains individually can help clarify the
adjustments that are seen as advantageous, necessary, or convenient. We
would all do well to concentrate on precisely these transforming functions;
they are likely to be the barriers to widespread acceptability, or the
lubricants of economic unfolding.
Chet
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From: "Jim Dwyer" <jim_dwyer@macgate.csuchico.edu>
Subject: RE: What's Going on Here?
David Tyckoson and others have pointed out some of the inherent dangers in
making files available only in one format (in this case, print) and only for a
fee. Expect this trend, the 12 year crusade to privitize taxpayer supported,
government produced information, and related shenanigans to accelerate if Bush
is re-elected and probably if Perot is elected and tries to "run the gummint
like a bidniss." On the other hand, the selection of Al Gore as a Clinton's VP
candidate should be heartening to those of us who support public networking and
education, not to mention environmentyal quality. Sorry, but I really think
planetary disasters like the ozone layer, desertification, depletion of natural
resources and topsoil, the toxic effects of herbicides-pesticides-chemical
fertilizers, and loss of biodiversity are a more fundamental than most PACS-L
issues, but there is a definite tie-in here. The library end is to
reduce-reuse-recycle and demand recycled paper products from publishers AND to
help ourselves and others to raise our own level of awareness and action
through the timely provision of knowledge to the public. These are realistic
potential benefits of electronic networking, but only if we act to take
advantage of them and of positive political opportunities. Clinton and Gore are
certainly not superheroes, but at this point they are the best hope to try to
reverse or at least address such ominous trends.
Jim Dwyer
Chico State University
I don't speak for Chico, but sometimes I get Groucho and start to Harpo
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From: Skip Knox <DUSKNOX@IDBSU>
Subject: Re: What's Going on Here?
David Tyckoson you are not being pessimistic at all. It's in the nature
of things that if there is money to be made off something money WILL be
made (and lost) off it. These are the halcyon days of the Internet and
they will end sooner or later. That won't be all bad, but we'll still
pine for the old days.
Ellis "Skip" Knox dusknox@idbsu.idbsu.edu
PC Coordinator & Faculty Computer Lab Supervisor
Professor of History
Boise State University Boise, Idaho
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From: stu@rsch.oclc.org (Stu Weibel)
Subject: Re: What's Going on Here?
David Tyckoson writes:
> ... I think that we
> are seeing a subtle shift in the status and value of the Internet. The
> two messages to which I am referring are: 1. That the back issues of
> PACS-L Review have just been published in print form, and 2. That the
> next edition of Zen and the Art of the Internet has just been published
> in PRINT form ONLY! What's going on here?
As for Pacs-L in print, this is an excellent idea, if only to save
libraries the human resources necessary to retrieve, collect, collate,
and validate the completemness of the journal. If Electronic
publishing imposes these burdens upon librarians everywhere this
onerous task, it will surely collapse from its own weight.
As for _ZEN_...why is it undemocratic to ask for an economic return on
one's substantial intellectual efforts? The author of _Zen_ quite
generously made available a substantial piece of work that engendered
substantial attention, from publishers apparently as well as from the
public. If this effort has been subverted in some sense by `filthy
lucre', then the marketplace will decide if it is worth $22.00 to
have it in published form or that the first version is good enough, or
that there is now a niche for another hot gun to come in and replace it
with the next, new, way-cool, ftp-able guide to cyberspace.
In addition, anyone care to hazard a guess about the loaded cost of
printing out this guide on laser printers? Probably less than $22.00,
but not dramatically less... another hidden cost.
1. Nobody owes us their efforts gratis. `Free' publishing of the latest
and greatest guide to collecting navel lint may make a name for an
author, but just try paying college tuition with it. Glory fades
as an inverse exponential function of the edition integer value
(trust me on this, sez stu, looking for his checkbook, wishing he
had written something half so popular).
2. It costs money to do these things... hiding the costs in salary
budgets or in some other way to make them appear free does not
change this fact.
3. Trust the system... cyberspace is not under anyone's direct control
no one can take it away, though we will undoubtably see many attempts
to co-opt it in the near future.
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From: me@SUZUKA.U-STRASBG.FR(Michel Eytan LILoL)
Subject: Re: What's Going on Here?
May I add my own little grain of salt to this topic by saying:
1. I agree 100% with what David Tyckoson tells us (as a matter of fact I have
sent several people on the 'vpiej-l' list private e-mail on this matter).
2. One can never be certain, but I am ready to bet my shirt that we see indeed
the
'beginning of the end of free access to electronic information through the
Internet'.
It is not only ' publishers [who] have found out that there is money to be made
on them
thar networks, so they are going to try to make us pay for information that has
been
available "free" to everyone in the past', but much, much worse: POLITICIANS in
their
most harmful guise: GOVERNMENTS.
--
Michel Eytan eytan@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr
Labo. Info., Log., Lang. T: +33 88 41 74 29
Univ. Strasbourg II F: +33 88 41 74 40
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From: BRIERTY@morekypr
Subject: Re: What's Going on Here?
Gee shiz guys! One minute we are complaining that its so hard to get
people to want to ua use the Internet and the next minute we are complaining
(I wish I could type better--Gee whiz!) that things distributed in
print about the Internet are a problem. Maybe if more things did go
out in print format, more people would discover what they are missing.
So what is going on anyway?
Carol Brierty
Morehead State U--that's KY NOT mn.
