[176] in Public-Access_Computer_Systems_Forum
Cataloging Internet Resources
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Public-Access Computer Systems For)
Wed May 6 11:14:05 1992
Date: Wed, 6 May 1992 10:10:22 CDT
Reply-To: Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <PACS-L%UHUPVM1.BITNET@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
From: Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <LIBPACS%UHUPVM1.BITNET@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list PACS-L <PACS-L@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
3 Messages, 140 Lines
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From: stu@rsch.oclc.org (Stu Weibel)
Subject: Internet Resources Cataloging
Kate Ellis writes:
could these people ... 'catalog' what they have, provide (and maintain,
I know) indices for the database (subject, type of resources, etc), and
set up a mechanism for cataloging future entries?
Michel Eytan responds:
What you want *exists already* I believe ... ; it's called WAIS.
Unless I am mistaken, I do not believe that WAIS addresses the
cataloging problem at all, except to the extent that indexes serve as a
poor-man's catalog. Without in any way impugning this excellent and
useful software, I suggest that this may be insufficient for all
anticipated needs.
Cataloging typically includes what one might think of as
meta-information about the item, and its niche in larger structures of
knowledge. This sort of information typically requires the added value
of human mediated cataloging. The question of what is really needed to
support adequate access to resources is open at this time. Is inverted
file indexing enough? Is the richer model of a modified MARC record
worthy of the necessary additional expenditure or resources? Are there
sensible intermediate positions? The answer is probably yes to all
three questions, depending on the scope and character of the
resources.
An important consideration for the future: today there is something on
the order of 100 gigibytes of public access FTP'able "stuff" out
there. This is a tiny fraction of what will be there even 5 or 10
years down the road, let alone in a generation. Without very sharp
retrieval tools (and cataloging is at the heart of such tools), finding
the proverbial needle will be challenging indeed.
Stuart Weibel
OCLC Office of Research
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From: Gord Nickerson <35007_321@uwovax.uwo.ca>
Subject: Cataloging Internet Resources
>From: emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti)
>The best mechanisms for doing this that we have on the net today
>#1 on the list is the Internet Gopher
>#2 is WAIS, the Wide Area Information System
>#3 is netnews
While librarians argue about marc records and cataloguing and indexing
Internet resources, there is a huge ground swell of people doing something
about it using easily-obtainable tools than don't require the approval of
3 committees and don't tie up lots of human and machine resources.
>From: Linda.Newman@UC.Edu
>it seems to me that the kind of access interface we need to
>develop should provide DIRECT access to electronic resources.
>It should be based on front-end assistance, with natural language query
>systems, hypertext links, keyword searching of the source data, etc., on an
>information system which can directly connect to any electronic
>resource it knows about. ...I don't think that we
>should be wasting the efforts of our profession on applying old tools,
>... to new resources. our efforts will be only minimally appreciated, and we
>will not be valued as we should be as experts on retrieval of online resources.
It seems to me (IMHO) that linda has hit the nail on the head. Many librarians
are approaching the problem from the wrong angle. They should be working with
the computer types by bringing their expertise and experience in interfaces
and information retrieval work to improve on the simple search mechanisms
of gophers and wais. You can't rely on computer people to get it right!
The cataloguing profession was built around a technology (card catalogs with
author, title, and subject access points) than no longer applies. Rather
than throw expensive resources (people) at the 'cataloguing problem' a
better idea is to use cheap resources (cpu/disk) as much as possible and
develop better IR tools so that users can gather info in their own way.
|\/\/\/\/|
| | Gord Nickerson, Information Systems Support Officer
| | School of Library and Information Science
| (*)(*) University of Western Ontario
C _) London, Ontario Canada N6G 1H1
| ,___| (519) 679-2111 extension 8486
| /
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From: Billy Barron - VAX/UNIX Systems Manager <billy@sol.acs.unt.edu>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources Catalog
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.pacs-l
References: <PACS-L%92050511115176@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
>My understanding, from a recent conversation with Craig SummerhIll of CNI,
>is that TopNode will catalog Internet FILES not Resources. So it will not
>tell us the location of all the copies of the online CIA World Fact Book,
>for example.
I've seen an early version of TopNode (well, over a year ago I might add)
and it was the same thing as Robert Maas Guide of Guide or Lists of Lists
(I forgot the name) that is available for anonymous FTP on FTP.UNT.EDU in
/pub/articles/maas.
>Anyone who has ever been faced with the prospect of retrospective cataloging
>knows how difficult it is. Might I gently suggest that the best way to
>document a new Internet resource OR file might be by the person who makes it
>available? A very simple form could be developed which would not require an
>MLS to fill out. When you put something up on the net, fill out the form and
>send it to somesite.edu. Then search the resulting collection of items full
>text with WAIS.
I had been trying to keep this quiet. Myself and some other people are working
on this exact thing. We are hoping to get the majority of work done quietly
and have a pretty simple yet powerful form developed before we should it to
the public in general (i.e. if I spend my time answering 100s of e-mail
messages, I can't spend time working on it). WAIS will be stage 1. I'm
planning to do other "better" methods of access in later stages.
My basis point with this letter is to just let people know there is something
being done. I just wrote up version 0.1 of the specification this weekend
and now bouncing it off of a few, selected people and then a few more and
then it will be time to set up WAIS and start writing some code. I've set it
up to be expandable so at any point in the future, changes can be made to the
format.
Please do not write me e-mail regarding this topic asking for details on what
I'm doing because I want to spend time working on it not answering questions.
When it is ready for public release, I'll announce it.
>About scholarly information on the network:
>To catalog it is to collect it.
I disagree greatly with this. The MARBI spec will allow you to catalog it,
but what about us non-library folks. It looks like an unreadable mess in
that format.
Billy Barron
billy@unt.edu
