[9975] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3568 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Aug 27 20:03:00 1998
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 98 17:00:37 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 27 Aug 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 3568
Today's topics:
Re: \\ ...what's the point? <rra@stanford.edu>
Re: comp.lang.perl.windows.misc (Norman UNsoliciteds)
Re: comp.lang.perl.windows.misc (Larry Rosler)
Re: comp.lang.perl.windows.misc (Norman UNsoliciteds)
Re: comp.lang.perl.windows.misc <ldaffner@rsn.hp.com>
Re: Determining strlen (John Moreno)
File Propagation <ttucker@stirlingsystems.com>
Help - Perl security problem! (Ben Duncan)
Help Request: Perl SQL Support? <bdunavant@s-c.org>
Re: Help Request: Perl SQL Support? (brian d foy)
Re: How to match anything but some characters (reg-exp) (Tad McClellan)
How to reference calling form name tgalczynski@rocketmail.com
Re: How to reference calling form name <rootbeer@teleport.com>
I'm new but I know what I need <bblue@customerofihug.co.nz>
join Perl club <aiaiai@mailexcite.com>
Re: Max value in an array (Abigail)
Re: Max value in an array (Abigail)
Re: Misinterpreted => why no true/false keywords? (Abigail)
Re: newbie question (Norman UNsoliciteds)
Passowrds in scripts (was Re: Perl compiler) <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Perl and Play by Email games... (Adam Spragg)
Re: Perl calling Perl <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: Perl compiler (I R A Aggie)
Re: Perl compiler <rra@stanford.edu>
Re: Perl compiler <p-fein@uchicago.edu>
Re: Perl compiler <p-fein@uchicago.edu>
Re: Perl compiler <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Re: Perl compiler (John Moreno)
Re: Perl compiler (Larry Rosler)
Re: Perl script compiling <mee@mine.com>
Re: Random Numbers in Range? (Larry Rosler)
Re: Random Numbers in Range? <jdw@dev.tivoli.com>
Re: Random Numbers in Range? (Larry Rosler)
Re: SDBM_File on Win32? <r_larsen@image.dk>
Re: Unreadable Scripts? (Norman UNsoliciteds)
Re: Unreadable Scripts? (Norman UNsoliciteds)
Re: Unreadable Scripts? <rra@stanford.edu>
Re: When using CGI.pm to upload file I get extraneous d (Larry Rosler)
Re: why no true/false keywords? (Abigail)
Re: Y2K Date Support <mee@mine.com>
Re: Y2K Date Support (Craig Berry)
Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Mar 98 (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1998 15:44:08 -0700
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: \\ ...what's the point?
Message-Id: <m390kaqc3r.fsf@windlord.Stanford.EDU>
Larry Rosler <lr@hpl.hp.com> writes:
> I believe the original submitter meant why wasn't it defined like this:
> print 'I can''t hear you', "\n";
> print 'This line ends with a backslash \', "\n";
> It is done this way in some other languages.
Probably because it's incompatible with the way that escaping works in
every other part of Perl (double-quoted strings, regexes, etc.) and in
this case consistency is a virtue. :)
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -- Russ Allbery, Just Another Perl Hacker
$^=q;@!>~|{>krw>yn{u<$$<[~||<Juukn{=,<S~|}<Jwx}qn{<Yn{u<Qjltn{ > 0gFzD gD,
00Fz, 0,,( 0hF 0g)F/=, 0> "L$/GEIFewe{,$/ 0C$~> "@=,m,|,(e 0.), 01,pnn,y{
rw} >;,$0=q,$,,($_=$^)=~y,$/ C-~><@=\n\r,-~$:-u/ #y,d,s,(\$.),$1,gee,print
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:12:09 +0900
From: No.unsoiliciteds@dead.end (Norman UNsoliciteds)
Subject: Re: comp.lang.perl.windows.misc
Message-Id: <No.unsoiliciteds-2808980712090001@cs11i33.ppp.infoweb.or.jp>
In article <EyCpyM.GMn@world.std.com>, aml@world.std.com (Andrew M.
Langmead) wrote:
> Without the Unix like additions to to MS-DOS, would the port of Perl
> have happened? (Just asking something to try to keep my message on
> topic.)
you are of course assuming the OS needs to have had some contact with Un*x
OS kernal philosophy - there are Perl ports for the Mac and the Amiga two
more un Un*x like OS's I can hardly imagine - anyone got any amusing
anecdotes about how the amiga started out with a command line interface in
it'S pre beta1 release to the amiga OS test labs?
--
The Dinosaurs were so stupid, they couldn't
even devise the means of thier own extinction,
they had to wait for Nature to do it for them.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:05:16 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: comp.lang.perl.windows.misc
Message-Id: <MPG.104f77f8ea631e35989809@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
In article <6s49qq$j0f$2@info.uah.edu> on 27 Aug 1998 18:51:06 GMT, Greg
Bacon <gbacon@itsc.uah.edu> says...
> In article <6s20td$srj@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>,
> gebis@fee.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J Gebis) writes:
> : gbacon@cs.uah.edu (Greg Bacon) writes:
> : }Please provide evidence for the claim that people who post from the
> : }.edu TLD are rude and clueless.
> :
> : The "September" part of Abigail's attribution line.
>
> That's a reference to the flood of discurteous freshmen every September.
> Most of the freshmen usually learn better or get lost by the end of
> September. Win32 users have had several years. What's the difference?
IIRC, that September 1993 date refers to the introduction of a Web
browser on Windows 3.1 systems, providing ready access to the Web (and
ultimately to Usenet) for the unwashed (or at any rate, un-lynx-ed and
un-mosaic-ed) hordes of non-Unix folks. Nothing specific about .edu
there -- they used Apple anyway :-)
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:31:54 +0900
From: No.unsoiliciteds@dead.end (Norman UNsoliciteds)
Subject: Re: comp.lang.perl.windows.misc
Message-Id: <No.unsoiliciteds-2808980731540001@cs11i33.ppp.infoweb.or.jp>
In article <6s49ml$j0f$1@info.uah.edu>, Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu> wrote:
> I invite anyone who disbelieves to sit idly on EFNet #perl for at
> most an hour. The great majority of FAQs and off-topic questions
> will undoubtedly be from mIRC (a Win32 IRC client) users. If you
> don't believe me, ask Chip or Randal or Tom or Nate or gnat or
> anyone else who frequents #perl.
I would say that of IRC in general the worst users are the ones about 13
years old, who have installed LINUX on thier comps to get a simil-shell
account, choose nicks like DeT0n@tOr and try and convince evryone they're
a "_real_ hacker *honest*".
AS for the Efnet #perl channel - it seems like any other channel
containing more than 30 users - the ops don't speak except through the
messages they put on thier kick/bans, there are too many convos in the
public channel to make any sense of what people are actually talking about
- why don't you set the +M(oderated) channel mode that stops anyone from
talking until they get the +V(oice) mode. That would cut down on the
useless chatter and bring the channel into line with
comp.lang.perl.moderated
--
The Dinosaurs were so stupid, they couldn't
even devise the means of thier own extinction,
they had to wait for Nature to do it for them.
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1998 18:04:32 -0500
From: Larry Daffner <ldaffner@rsn.hp.com>
Subject: Re: comp.lang.perl.windows.misc
Message-Id: <f5on28qm3gf.fsf@rsn.hp.com>
>>>>> "LR" == Larry Rosler <lr@hpl.hp.com> writes:
LR> IIRC, that September 1993 date refers to the introduction of a
LR> Web browser on Windows 3.1 systems, providing ready access to
LR> the Web (and ultimately to Usenet) for the unwashed (or at any
LR> rate, un-lynx-ed and un-mosaic-ed) hordes of non-Unix folks.
LR> Nothing specific about .edu there -- they used Apple anyway
LR> :-)
There's a difference between the denotation and the connotation
though. Orignally, it started out as "1993, the year September never
ended", which referred to the fact that September used to be an
annoying month for usenet, due to the .edu newbies finding "this
Usenet thing". I believe the browser mentioned above actually came out
in October, but September was used to draw a parallel between the
traditional September freshman inrush. So, the "September 1993"
moniker refers to both the "clueless freshman" and the "clueless
newbie Windows users" phenomena.
-Larry
--
| Larry Daffner - Software Engineer | email: ldaffner@rsn.hp.com |
| Hewlett Packard RSSL | #include <disclamer.h> |
"I had to hit him -- he was starting to make sense."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:31:23 -0400
From: phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno)
Subject: Re: Determining strlen
Message-Id: <1defoli.8l0crzck13vrN@roxboro0-025.dyn.interpath.net>
Dave Wreski <dave@nic.com> wrote:
-snip-
>
> Umm.. actually, I thought I understood how to find the length. The
> problem is I need to pull out just the URL from the string, and take the
> length of that, not the entire string.
>
> If I do something like:
>
> if ($str =~ /<A HREF=http:/)
> ...
>
> it works ok, but I don't understand why the following doesn't work:
>
> if ($str =~ /<A HREF=http:*>/)
> ...
>
> Argh, very frustrating, and the FAQ is more complicated than I"m ready for
> right now.. I just haven't had the time to learn how to do this..
Nooooooooo! Pleassssssse Donnnnnnnnn't
If you're looking to parse html use the module. Doing it by hand like
this /only/ works if you're the one making the html so that you can
control what goes in it. /IF/ that is the case then what you want is
not the above but instead : if ($str =~ /<A HREF=(http:.+?>)/) and then
proceed with $1. But use this IF and ONLY if you can guarantee that you
won't have url's like:
<A HREF =
"http://search.dejanews.com/msgid.xp?MID=<35E5BC57.AA9F102C@nic.com>">Me
ssage from Dave</A>
(btw - you need to set netscape to wrap at around 72, not 90.
--
John Moreno
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:28:22 -0600
From: Trent Tucker <ttucker@stirlingsystems.com>
Subject: File Propagation
Message-Id: <35E5DD70.90D4963C@stirlingsystems.com>
Howdy-
Can someone send me some perl code for propagating a file down a
directory tree?
I have a simple script for creating a string and saving it so a
file, but I want it to be saved not to a single file but
to individual files in every
directory below a particualr path.
can anyone send me the code to do that?
Thanks for your assistance.
Take Care,
Trent
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Trent Tucker Phone: 303/417-1718
Knowledge Systems Manager Fax: 303/417-1016
Stirling Systems Group, LLC
4430 Arapahoe Avenue, Suite 120 Email: ttucker@stirlingsystems.com
Boulder, Colorado 80303 http://www.stirlingsystems.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Strange is our situation here upon Earth. However, there
is one thing that we do know. That man is here for the
sake of other men. Above all, for those upon whose smile
and well being our own happiness depends. And also for the
countless unknown souls with whose fate we are connected by
a bond of sympathy. - Ed Einstein
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 02:54:26 GMT
From: ben@isolve.net (Ben Duncan)
Subject: Help - Perl security problem!
Message-Id: <35e61b3d.4305444@news.netcom.ca>
Hi,
I have a perl script running suid and when ever I try to execute the
script I get the following error
Insecure dependency in open while running setuid at /check.pl line
207, <STDIN> chunk 10.
And this is the line Perl is complaining about
open(INETD,">>/conf/$login.conf");
Can anyone give me some ideas how to get around this?
Cheers,
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:02:30 -0400
From: Brian Dunavant <bdunavant@s-c.org>
Subject: Help Request: Perl SQL Support?
Message-Id: <35E5D775.B2707CF2@smarttime.net>
Hiyas! I was recently introduced to Perl at my new job, and I absolutly
love it. I've tried to do all my projects using it, but my current
project requires interaction with Informix. Are there any ESQL
utilities or ways to interact with the database other than writing my
sql statements to a file and sending them to dbaccess? I'd like to be
able to actively check select statements and their SQLCODEs without all
this mucking about and writing to the harddrive.
I've searched all over, but couldn't find anything about it in the faqs,
or anything on the web other than isqlperl which seems to have been
written years ago for an older version. Any suggestions would be
appreciated. I'm trying to find the solution before my deadline gets
too close and I'm forced to do it in C. :)
Thanks for any help,
Brian
bdunavant@smarttime.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:23:39 -0400
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: Help Request: Perl SQL Support?
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R2708981823390001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <35E5D775.B2707CF2@smarttime.net>, Brian Dunavant <bdunavant@s-c.org> posted:
>Hiyas! I was recently introduced to Perl at my new job, and I absolutly
>love it. I've tried to do all my projects using it, but my current
>project requires interaction with Informix.
try the DBI package with the DBD-Informix. you can get each from the
modules repository at CPAN.
good luck :)
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
Perl Mongers needs volunteers! <URL:http://www.pm.org/to-do.html>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:26:56 -0500
From: tadmc@metronet.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: How to match anything but some characters (reg-exp)
Message-Id: <gaj3s6.bt.ln@metronet.com>
Hauk Langlo (hauk@forumnett.no) wrote:
: I'm about to check if the content of a string contains anything else
: than normal letters digits or one of these "---" I could ofcourse look
: for anything else by defining all other normal characters likely to
: appear ( _ / & ! @ " # etc), but that would not make me feel good about
: myselfe. I would be very happy if someone knew how to write a reg exp
: that works like this:
: If ($somescalar =~ /"anything exept a-z, 0-9, or -"/g){
^^ ^
The perl keyword is 'if', not 'If'.
Having a 'g' modifier with 'if' is usually not right.
One match with 'if' (no g), multiple matches with 'while'.
And since you only need to find one "forbidden" character,
you don't need the g for your purposes.
: do stuff
: }
if ($somescalar !~ /^[a-z0-9-]*$/) { # if any char other than
do stuff # those 37 chars is in the string
}
See the heading "Binding Operators" in the perlop man page for !~
OR
if ($somescalar =~ /[^a-z0-9-]/) { # if any char other than
do stuff # those 37 chars is in the string
}
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
tadmc@metronet.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:02:48 GMT
From: tgalczynski@rocketmail.com
Subject: How to reference calling form name
Message-Id: <6s4l29$ff0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Hello. I am a newbie to PERL. I have two similar html pages that I want to
call the same PERL script. How can I tell which page called the script after
the passed in data has been parsed with the standard cgi-lib.pl? I've tried
$form_name and other feeble attempts and searched through usenet groups and
web sites. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Tom Galczynski
tgalczynski@rocketmail.com
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:32:18 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: How to reference calling form name
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.4.02A.9808271529290.4382-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 tgalczynski@rocketmail.com wrote:
> I have two similar html pages that I want to
> call the same PERL script.
Web pages can't call Perl scripts. Maybe you mean that you want to have
forms that tell a browser to activate a server which will run a CGI
script. (Of course, the fact that that script is written in Perl doesn't
matter; it could be written in any language which can implement the CGI
protocol.)
> How can I tell which page called the script
Perhaps the docs, FAQs, and newsgroups about CGI programming would be able
to help you. You should especially check the environment variables. Hope
this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:18:27 +1200
From: Dominic <bblue@customerofihug.co.nz>
Subject: I'm new but I know what I need
Message-Id: <35E5E942.1CF951E@customerofihug.co.nz>
Hello everyone.
My site is in the process of being set up, ready for going live - to
receive real world use.
It's a prototype right now. If you'd like to see it:
http://www.a-vision.co.nz . It's a TV site, looking at how the Internet
could be transforming TV.
I'd like to meet up with some Perl programmers.
The site requires some Perl scripts.
I'll be honest and say that I may not be able to pay. But if there are
some rare guys out there who'd like to be part of a great idea, and
receive a thank-you via lots of publicity and being part of a cool idea,
then....cool!
Let's get together.
Dom
--
reply
takeoutbfromblueandcustomerofihugfromcustomerofihug.co.nz
ICQ 17002966
TV site worth having: http://www.a-vision.co.nz
A proper look at how the Internet could transform TV.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:28:56 -0500
From: Keith Chiu <aiaiai@mailexcite.com>
Subject: join Perl club
Message-Id: <35E5EBB8.4C932006@mailexcite.com>
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/perl
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1998 23:21:14 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Max value in an array
Message-Id: <6s4pla$35p$1@client3.news.psi.net>
Randal Schwartz (merlyn@stonehenge.com) wrote on MDCCCXXII September
MCMXCIII in <URL: news:8chfyyia02.fsf@gadget.cscaper.com>:
++ >>>>> "Abigail" == Abigail <abigail@fnx.com> writes:
++
++ Abigail> map {} is your friend.
++
++ Abigail> Here's a Randal-happy version:
++
++ Uh, I think Abigail means that in reverse. :)
++
++ Abigail> sub max {
++ Abigail> return unless @_;
++ Abigail> my $max = shift;
++ Abigail> map {$max = $_ if $_ > $max; ()} @_;
++ Abigail> $max;
++ Abigail> }
++
++ Yup. map in a void context. Pure Evil.
So are penguins. Please explain.
Abigail
--
perl -wle 'print "Prime" if (1 x shift) !~ /^1?$|^(11+?)\1+$/'
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1998 23:25:59 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Max value in an array
Message-Id: <6s4pu7$35p$2@client3.news.psi.net>
Randal Schwartz (merlyn@stonehenge.com) wrote on MDCCCXXII September
MCMXCIII in <URL: news:8cemu2i9wc.fsf@gadget.cscaper.com>:
++ >>>>> "Abigail" == Abigail <abigail@fnx.com> writes:
++
++ Abigail> map {} seems the exception
++ Abigail> on the rule that there are no lists in scalar context.
++
++ No, it's a list in a *void* context. I never have claimed that there
++ were no lists in a void context. :)
Oh, so now void context isn't a special case of scalar context anymore?
And it took 9 years of perl development before programmers could even
test for that form of context?
Abigail
--
perl -we '$_ = q ;4a75737420616e6f74686572205065726c204861636b65720as;;
for (s;s;s;s;s;s;s;s;s;s;s;s)
{s;(..)s?;qq qprint chr 0x$1 and \161 ssq;excess;}'
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1998 23:31:51 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Misinterpreted => why no true/false keywords?
Message-Id: <6s4q97$35p$3@client3.news.psi.net>
Mark-Jason Dominus (mjd@op.net) wrote on MDCCCXXII September MCMXCIII in
<URL: news:6s4g80$2u4$1@monet.op.net>:
++ In article <904244138.713210@thrush.omix.com>,
++ Zenin <zenin@bawdycaste.org> wrote:
++ > use constant true => 1;
++
++ I'm on a campaign to wipe out `use constant'.
++
++ Here's why:
++
++ use constant true => 1;
++
++ loads in five files and 1,094 lines of code (!!!) and can be replaced with
++
++ *true = sub () { 1 };
++
++ which does exactly the same thing and is shorter to type anyway!
The number of characters typed is irrelevant.
++ So, the question you have to ask yourself: Is irrational glob fear
++ worth the expense of 1,094x blowup in code size?
'use constant' stands out better than the glob. The question is, why is
constant.pm using 1094 lines of code?
Abigail
--
perl -we '$_ = q ?4a75737420616e6f74686572205065726c204861636b65720as?;??;
for (??;(??)x??;??)
{??;s;(..)s?;qq ?print chr 0x$1 and \161 ss?;excess;??}'
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:02:41 +0900
From: No.unsoiliciteds@dead.end (Norman UNsoliciteds)
Subject: Re: newbie question
Message-Id: <No.unsoiliciteds-2808980702420001@cs11i33.ppp.infoweb.or.jp>
In article <obg1eib8rz.fsf@alder.dev.tivoli.com>, "Jim Woodgate"
<jdw@dev.tivoli.com> wrote:
> I have perl5 running on an NT box, both perl -de 42 and perldoc -f
> <your favorite command> work perfectly.
great what do they mean? (remember I don't have unix man pages so advice
like "grep man f(5)" isn't going to explain a lot :)
--
The Dinosaurs were so stupid, they couldn't
even devise the means of thier own extinction,
they had to wait for Nature to do it for them.
------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 1998 09:17:50 +1000
From: ? the platypus {aka David Formosa} <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Passowrds in scripts (was Re: Perl compiler)
Message-Id: <6s4peu$52$1@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
In <m3vhnft4eu.fsf@windlord.Stanford.EDU> Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:
[...]
>Oh, sure. Like I said, I mostly agree with you. It's just that there
>*are* cases where one has to do the moral equivalent.
More a unix question then a perl one (but related to the current thread
and perl as well). If a setuid script (or wrapper) dumps core will the
user get a copy of the core file?
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 98 23:50:20 GMT
From: spragg@table.jps.net (Adam Spragg)
Subject: Perl and Play by Email games...
Message-Id: <35e5f0bc.0@blushng.jps.net>
1) I'm pretty new to Perl. That seems to be the standard issue greeting
around here.
2) I'm a big fan already. I've never felt such an *attraction* to a
language. It's really odd.
So, I've wanted to do something cool with it. It's fun to use it at work
and parse through big files with long numbers, but not *that* fun. I
wrote a Mad-Libs (tm) thingy, but the fun wore off pretty quickly. Even
on the dirty one.
A while ago, my chums and I played a Play By Email game (PBEM).
Essentially, each player in the game emailed a weeks worth of "turns" to
the guy running the game. He'd then send back the "results." In this
case, the setting was a fantasy type city, with an arena in the middle.
You could do turns like "moveto 6,6" and "explore", which would move to a
city block, and find neat things to do in that block. For instance, if
there was a shop there, you could, on a subsequent turn, "moveto 6,6" and
"buy something cool". And there was combat (you specified your own
fighting tactics with percents (dodge 25%, attack 50%, parry 25%, flee if
life less than 10HP, etc). And so on.
You get the idea.
It seemed to me that Perl might be a fun language to try to attempt
something like this. Here's what I think would need to happen. There
would need to be some sort of "world". There would need to be some sort
of automatic process of reading in a (formatted correctly) emailed "turn"
into the "world", and getting automatic results back. For instance, if
the turn said "go to this spot", the world would respond back with a
paragraph about what is found at the spot. A collection of these sorts of
paragraphs would be returned to the user. And the world would have to be
able to be modified, and then saved in anticipation of the next turn.
Any further thoughts on this would be appreciated. I can't be the first
person to have had this idea....
Thanks for reading my ramblings this far... I appreciate it...
Adam
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:21:43 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Perl calling Perl
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.4.02A.9808271519550.4382-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 jeanmar@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> I'm trying to get a CGI-Lib Perl script call another Perl script
> The code fragment is:
> eval `cat dbscript.pl`;
Is your perl program named 'cat'? :-)
You don't want to use eval to call another Perl program. To run another
program (whether the other is written in Perl or otherwise), use the
methods in perlipc or perlfunc.
Hope this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:04:46 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: Perl compiler
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-2708981804460001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <6s47h6$4s4@ws051eng.ictest.delcoelect.com>,
awdorrin@mail.delcoelect.com (Albert W. Dorrington) wrote:
+ Oh give me a break! There are many valid reasons for wanting
+ to keep source code hidden from users.
+
+ Most of the reasons I can think of off the top of my head
+ deal with security issues or support.
Ah, security by obscurity.
James - hint: it ain't secure just 'cause you don't think anyone knows
about the security hole in your system...
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1998 15:42:09 -0700
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: Perl compiler
Message-Id: <m3btp6qc72.fsf@windlord.Stanford.EDU>
Nathan V Patwardhan <nvp@shore.net> writes:
> John Stanley (stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU) wrote:
>> I have a really cool new server that has a whole computer that does
>> nothing but monitor the rest of the server. It wants a password before
>> it will let me get to the data.
> So why can't the "operator" login to the machine by themselves and grab
> the data? Or why can't the program ask the person who's running it for
> a password? Why is hardcoding of a password necessary?
Usually because you (a) want to obtain that information on an automated
basis and automatically generate statistics and reports and the like and
then mail them to someone / put them on the web / check them for problems
and notify people of emergencies / etc., and (b) the software that's doing
the monitoring is usually commercial without source so you can't switch to
some other authentication scheme and everyone things passwords are kewl.
In other words, there *isn't* a human sitting there watching the thing.
Nor should there have to be. Automated data retrieval, checking,
summarizing, and reporting is something that Perl is very good at, and I
like letting Perl do it for me without me having to watch it. :)
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -- Russ Allbery, Just Another Perl Hacker
$^=q;@!>~|{>krw>yn{u<$$<[~||<Juukn{=,<S~|}<Jwx}qn{<Yn{u<Qjltn{ > 0gFzD gD,
00Fz, 0,,( 0hF 0g)F/=, 0> "L$/GEIFewe{,$/ 0C$~> "@=,m,|,(e 0.), 01,pnn,y{
rw} >;,$0=q,$,,($_=$^)=~y,$/ C-~><@=\n\r,-~$:-u/ #y,d,s,(\$.),$1,gee,print
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:34:51 GMT
From: Peter A Fein <p-fein@uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Perl compiler
Message-Id: <opgpvdmdpf8.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu>
stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:
<mega-snip>
>
> Now, what way, other than hardcoding the password, can you think of to
> accomplish these tasks? The only ones I can think of all result in a
> hardcoded password appearing somewhere, or the equivalent. (E.g., the
> password used to decrypt the password appears; the hardcoded algorithm
> to decode the encrypted password is readable; no password at all, which
> makes the login name function as both login name and password.)
What you could really use here is ssh. Using the .knownhosts file,
you can set it up so that no password is required on login (it works
off a public/private key scheme). It's also secure as heck. Check
out www.ssh.net.
Now my problem is what if you need to log in somewhere that CAN'T
support ssh, such as into a database from a CGI script? Or was this
answered already and I missed it in the diatribe? ;)
--
Peter A Fein Summering in SF!
Home: 650-571-6476 Work: 650-628-2172
p-fein@uchicago.edu pfein@us.checkpoint.com
Gilette's Razor: The best a man can get.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:33:16 GMT
From: Peter A Fein <p-fein@uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Perl compiler
Message-Id: <opgr9y2dphv.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu>
stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:
<mega-snip>
>
> Now, what way, other than hardcoding the password, can you think of to
> accomplish these tasks? The only ones I can think of all result in a
> hardcoded password appearing somewhere, or the equivalent. (E.g., the
> password used to decrypt the password appears; the hardcoded algorithm
> to decode the encrypted password is readable; no password at all, which
> makes the login name function as both login name and password.)
What you could really use here is ssh. Using the .knownhosts file,
you can set it up so that no password is required on login (it works
off a public/private key scheme). It's also secure as heck. Check
out www.ssh.net.
--
Peter A Fein Summering in SF!
Home: 650-571-6476 Work: 650-628-2172
p-fein@uchicago.edu pfein@us.checkpoint.com
Gilette's Razor: The best a man can get.
------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 1998 09:23:26 +1000
From: ? the platypus {aka David Formosa} <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Perl compiler
Message-Id: <6s4ppe$ml$1@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
In <yekww7ur19h.fsf@grymoire.birch> Bruce Barnett <see.my.address.below@domain.com> writes:
>abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) writes:
>> The people who decided to write it in Perl should have thought about
>> this question before.
>So, Perl is unsuitable for prototyping new concepts?
But you don't sell prototypes to peaple. And even if you distrubute
prototypies for testing you would do it under a strict non-disclousre
aggrment.
In fact distrabuting the source with prototype software is a good idear as
it allows your testers to help in the debugging efforts.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:40:53 -0400
From: phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno)
Subject: Re: Perl compiler
Message-Id: <1defqa1.1u1u3aj1c2yjw5N@roxboro0-025.dyn.interpath.net>
In comp.lang.perl.misc I R A Aggie <fl_aggie@thepentagon.com> wrote:
> awdorrin@mail.delcoelect.com (Albert W. Dorrington) wrote:
>
> + Oh give me a break! There are many valid reasons for wanting
> + to keep source code hidden from users.
> +
> + Most of the reasons I can think of off the top of my head
> + deal with security issues or support.
>
> Ah, security by obscurity.
>
> James - hint: it ain't secure just 'cause you don't think anyone knows
> about the security hole in your system...
No, but it secure as long as you are correct.
--
John "The problem is of course to ensure that continues to be the case" Moreno
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:50:07 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: Perl compiler
Message-Id: <MPG.104f908c29721a9598980c@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
[Posted to comp.lang.perl.misc and copy mailed.]
In article <6s4ppe$ml$1@godzilla.zeta.org.au> on 28 Aug 1998 09:23:26
+1000, ? the platypus {aka David Formosa} <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
says...
> In <yekww7ur19h.fsf@grymoire.birch> Bruce Barnett <see.my.address.below@domain.com> writes:
...
> >So, Perl is unsuitable for prototyping new concepts?
>
> But you don't sell prototypes to peaple. And even if you distrubute
> prototypies for testing you would do it under a strict non-disclousre
> aggrment.
Best laugh of the day! The textbooks, and TomC in his Style talk at the
Perl Conference, say that what you do with prototypes ("first drafts") is
throw them out and rewrite them. The audience got a big laugh too. What
we do with prototypes here (Silicon Valley and especially Redmond) is
"ship 'em"!
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:52:24 -0700
From: Mee <mee@mine.com>
Subject: Re: Perl script compiling
Message-Id: <35E5D518.5165020B@mine.com>
Tom:
( My previous reply is not showing up, sorry if it emerges from the bit
bucket and clones this one. )
<< If you'd like better docs, please write some. :-) >>
I am aware that statements "emperor has no clothes" are
unpopular and a waste of time, but can't resist
pointing out that your Bible introduces the Perl creed
on the page 164 (that's ONE HUNDRED SIXTY FOUR)!
The problem with this approach is that the uninitiated
will probably have run away or fallen asleep before the
sermon has even began.
<< But if you have particular questions on what some docs are trying to
tell
you, you could ask those questions here >>
Read the original post, Luke!
Don't let the issue of lame docs cloud your mind.
Mee
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:02:09 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: Random Numbers in Range?
Message-Id: <MPG.104f773917728b92989807@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
[Posted to comp.lang.perl.misc and copy mailed.]
In article <gljF1.12$nb7.127537@news3.voicenet.com> on Thu, 27 Aug 1998
20:30:04 GMT, Matt Knecht <hex@voicenet.com> says...
...
> $num = rand_range(97 => 122);
>
> sub rand_range
> {
> my $lo = shift || 0;
> my $hi = shift || 1;
>
> ($hi, $lo) = ($lo, $hi) if $hi <=> $lo;
This is a novel (i.e. incorrect) use of the spaceship operator. I doubt
that you mean to swap if $hi > $lo, and if they're equal, who cares.
> sprintf '%.0f', rand($hi - $lo) + $lo;
In that case, forget the swap and write rand(abs($hi - $lo)).
sprintf '%.0f' rounds, not truncates, so you will get half as many of
your end point values as any of the other values. Use 'int' instead
(and add one to $hi if you want it included in the range of possible
outputs).
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1998 16:23:37 -0500
From: "Jim Woodgate" <jdw@dev.tivoli.com>
Subject: Re: Random Numbers in Range?
Message-Id: <obbtp6azl2.fsf@alder.dev.tivoli.com>
hex@voicenet.com (Matt Knecht) writes:
> ($hi, $lo) = ($lo, $hi) if $hi <=> $lo;
shouldn't that be if $hi < $lo? Actually this line isn't needed...
This line swaps $hi and $lo unless $hi happens to == $lo, so the rand
line ends up running this:
rand(97 - 122) + 127;
so it generates a negative number, and subtracts it from 127, pretty
cool...
--
Jim Woodgate
Tivoli Systems
E-Mail: jdw@dev.tivoli.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:43:12 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: Random Numbers in Range?
Message-Id: <MPG.104f8ee641cdb2af98980b@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
[Posted to comp.lang.perl.misc and copy mailed.]
In article <obbtp6azl2.fsf@alder.dev.tivoli.com> on 27 Aug 1998 16:23:37
-0500, Jim Woodgate <jdw@dev.tivoli.com> says...
...
> rand(97 - 122) + 127;
>
> so it generates a negative number, and subtracts it from 127, pretty
> cool...
You may find it cool, but it is not the way the function is documented,
so the behavior you report is fortuitous. `perldoc -f rand`:
Returns a random fractional number greater than or equal to 0 and less
than the value of EXPR. (EXPR should be positive.)
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:01:58 +0200
From: R. A. Larsen <r_larsen@image.dk>
Subject: Re: SDBM_File on Win32?
Message-Id: <VA.00000056.00aa70e4@octo>
John Callender <jbc@west.net> wrote:
[FAQ example]
> tie( %myhash, "SDBM_File", 'myfile', O_RDWR | O_CREAT | O_BINARY,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 0666 )
> or die( "Can't tie: $!" );
[John's example]
> tie( %MYHASH, "SDBM_File", 'myfile', O_CREAT, 0666 )
^^^^^^^
> or die( "Can't tie: $!" );
[description of problem snipped]
> 1) Is there some way I can tie the thing initially that will allow me to
> both create it *and* do reads and writes?
Try looking at the two examples again. Can you see the difference? If you
used the FAQ example you would succeed.
> 2) What is the FAQ talking about with the "_must_ use O_BINARY"
> statement? I seem to be able to do what I want to do (so far, at least)
> without bothering with it. Is that going to come back and bite me later,
> or something?
In short: yes.
DOS/Windows has two different types of files (text and binary). Sometimes
text files behaves different from binary files. That is different from
Unix, where all files are equal :)
> 3) In general, what's going on with the three subroutines (O_RDWR,
> O_CREAT, O_BINARY) defined in the FAQ example? I don't have to bother
> with any definitions like that when using GDBM_File under Unix,
> presumably because all that stuff is defined for me in the module, where
> I don't have to worry my tiny little brain about it. I don't mind
> invoking it as a black magic, but I get the sense it's involved in my
> confusion over the other issues, so I'd appreciate it if someone could
> explain to me a bit more about what's going on.
The sub's are 'the perl way' of creating/using constants. Just use them as
instructed :)
> Bonus points if you can do so using small words that even a
> non-programmer can understand.
I have tried to, but it is difficzlt.
I hope this helps.
Regards, Reni
--
Using Virtual Access
http://www.vamail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:38:11 +0900
From: No.unsoiliciteds@dead.end (Norman UNsoliciteds)
Subject: Re: Unreadable Scripts?
Message-Id: <No.unsoiliciteds-2808980738120001@cs11i33.ppp.infoweb.or.jp>
In article <_q4F1.83$wf3.749364@shore>, nvp@shore.net (Nathan V.
Patwardhan) wrote:
> Strange. Does clpmisc now have a reputation for being an unhelpful
> flamebed? If so, I wonder why people aren't careful and continue to
> post FAQs. Just curious.
Probably for the same reason other people are unable to skip postings
without making some kind of
ironic/sarcstic/caustic/pointless/uninformative/trivial
staement
--
The Dinosaurs were so stupid, they couldn't
even devise the means of thier own extinction,
they had to wait for Nature to do it for them.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:53:49 +0900
From: No.unsoiliciteds@dead.end (Norman UNsoliciteds)
Subject: Re: Unreadable Scripts?
Message-Id: <No.unsoiliciteds-2808980753500001@cs11i33.ppp.infoweb.or.jp>
Nathan V. Patwardhan laboured the point:
<*> Hmm. Is it the case that people now subscribe, read and post to a
<*> newsgroup without reading its FAQ beforehand? Something has changed!
<*> :-)
<*> Then again, there are always the news.announce newsgroups -- which
<*> people should read before diving in.
Oh puuuuuhhhleeeeeze I bet you knew all these things before you came on
Use Net, I never seen such a bunch of BOFs (and this doesn't mean birds
of a feather) trying to pretend they were never kids.
--
A true fool is a man who has no fears and no faults
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1998 15:45:31 -0700
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: Unreadable Scripts?
Message-Id: <m367feqc1g.fsf@windlord.Stanford.EDU>
Nathan V Patwardhan <nvp@shore.net> writes:
> Then again, there are always the news.announce newsgroups -- which
> people should read before diving in.
news.announce.newusers, I assume you mean. news.announce.newgroups won't
help new readers of this group very much, since we're not in the process
of reorganizing it just now. :)
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -- Russ Allbery, Just Another Perl Hacker
$^=q;@!>~|{>krw>yn{u<$$<[~||<Juukn{=,<S~|}<Jwx}qn{<Yn{u<Qjltn{ > 0gFzD gD,
00Fz, 0,,( 0hF 0g)F/=, 0> "L$/GEIFewe{,$/ 0C$~> "@=,m,|,(e 0.), 01,pnn,y{
rw} >;,$0=q,$,,($_=$^)=~y,$/ C-~><@=\n\r,-~$:-u/ #y,d,s,(\$.),$1,gee,print
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:08:47 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: When using CGI.pm to upload file I get extraneous data
Message-Id: <MPG.104f78ce3b89c43598980a@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
In article <6s4kbr$pl2@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> on 27 Aug 1998 21:50:51
GMT, Robert Watkins <r-watkinsNOSPAM@worldnet.att.net> says...
> In article <MPG.104f52068bb34d3a989801@nntp.hpl.hp.com>, lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler) wrote:
...
> >`perldoc -f binmode`. Use it for each of the files.
...
> binmode $uplaodfile;
> while (read $uploadfile, $buffer, 1024) {
> print NEWPDF $buffer;
> }
> but I STILL get extraneous data in the PDF file.
Did you binmode the NEWPDF file too? Assuming $uplaodfile is just a
typo, there should be no further problem.
--
(Yet Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1998 23:50:44 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: why no true/false keywords?
Message-Id: <6s4rck$3ll$1@client3.news.psi.net>
Greg Bacon (gbacon@itsc.uah.edu) wrote on MDCCCXXII September MCMXCIII in
<URL: news:6s4ao3$j0f$5@info.uah.edu>:
++ In article <6s2g13$97v$1@client3.news.psi.net>,
++ abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) writes:
++ : But is the use of TRUE/FALSE wrong in, for instance:
++ :
++ : sub some_check_sub {
++ : ....
++ : if (condition) {
++ : return FALSE;
++ : }
++ : ...
++ : if (other condition) {
++ : return TRUE;
++ : }
++ : ...
++ : return FALSE;
++ : }
++
++ That locks &some_check_sub into only being useful in scalar context
++ because
++
++ @vals = some_check_sub;
++ if (@vals) {
++ ...;
++ }
++
++ will break when it returns FALSE. Simple, unadorned C<return> is very
++ useful for this type of thing.
Yada, yada, yada. Using 'return' will fail if I set up a cache:
%true_false = map {$_ => some_check_sub $_} @values;
because if it would use 'return;' in the case of false, my hash will
be serious messed up.
Of course, now you could argue that I could use scalar:
map {$_ => scalar some_check_sub $_}
but then, I will argue you could use grep:
@vals = grep {$_} some_check_sub;
As usually, the only foolish thing to say is "but you should use this,
because that's better". No, "this is better" doesn't belong with Perl.
It all depends on what you want, how you use it, and the context.
Abigail
--
perl -we '$_ = q ;4a75737420616e6f74686572205065726c204861636b65720as;;
for (s;s;s;s;s;s;s;s;s;s;s;s)
{s;(..)s?;qq qprint chr 0x$1 and \161 ssq;excess;}'
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:55:10 -0700
From: Mee <mee@mine.com>
Subject: Re: Y2K Date Support
Message-Id: <35E5D5BE.E1F81592@mine.com>
Craig:
<< Summary: Perl itself is "y2k safe," whatever that means for a
language. Perl programs can be as y2k-bug-ridden as their authors
choose to make them. >>
This utterly nonsensical statement is exactly what I referred to as
"propaganda" in my original post.
Mee
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1998 23:44:15 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: Y2K Date Support
Message-Id: <6s4r0f$90m$1@marina.cinenet.net>
Mee (mee@mine.com) wrote:
: Craig:
: << Summary: Perl itself is "y2k safe," whatever that means for a
: language. Perl programs can be as y2k-bug-ridden as their authors
: choose to make them. >>
:
: This utterly nonsensical statement is exactly what I referred to as
: "propaganda" in my original post.
Excuse me, but my statement is both sensible and correct. Or can you
refute it? In what way do you consider it 'nonsensical'?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| "Ripple in still water, when there is no pebble tossed,
nor wind to blow..."
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jul 98 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Mar 98)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
Special notice: in a few days, the new group comp.lang.perl.moderated
should be formed. I would rather not support two different groups, and I
know of no other plans to create a digested moderated group. This leaves
me with two options: 1) keep on with this group 2) change to the
moderated one.
If you have opinions on this, send them to
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The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 3568
**************************************
